Why do Protagonists always lack self confidence


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Prideless

-san
Sempai
Ive come to notice that a many if not the majority of anime series the featured protagonist is always lacking in self esteem and confidence.

I am not saying all, but I notice its quite the bucket load of protagonists that are plagued with this attribute.

Is this a reflection of the author? the society? the audience? or what?

Id like to see more Kamina-like or Onizuka-like protagonists. There just aint enough of em out there.

It would be nice to see some more enthusiastic and upbeat personalities in protagonists.

and so I ask you what do you think caused this trend?

Do you agree or disagree?
 
QUOTE (Prideless @ Mar 28 2010, 05:16 PM) and so I ask you what do you think caused this trend?

Do you agree or disagree?
For most harem visual novels adaptations, it should be understood that the protagonist should be essentially indecisive mainly because there's usually no "right" ending. If anything this is one source of the trend. The other source would be the audience themselves. In these kind of situations, most people end up whining like a baby about how "their" character wasn't the one chosen for the ending and why some "ugly" character got a happy ending, and so authors decided that "to make everyone happy" either have a harem ending or leave a series open-ended and have the audience debate among themselves and interpret what may/could happen if there was a continuation.

Although there will always be some sort of criticism about why didn't an author/director properly end it, my guess is that to keep the "majority" of people happy, but of course this is all but speculation
 
It is totally a Japan thing.

Sometimes though, it's not about confidence, but a matter of motivation. In the USA for instance, most people are self-seekers. Whereas in Japan, by culture it's traditional others-seekers, where instead of looking inward they look outward and try to help others. Meaning they strive to not focus on their own personal interests. They're not as selfish, so they just put their own desires further down on the priority list.
 
I would assume it's a plot device. It adds the ability to give depth or growth to a character.

Thats at leaste an alternative to it having a deeper meaning.
 
It IS a basic plot device, and a simple character development formula. Traditional anime conflict is about the clash of wills and beliefs, but to make it more interesting the protagonists needs to go through trials and personal growth before he can clash with the nemesis. On the one hand, I'd say it's a traditional feature that distinguishes anime. Although then again, there's more self-confident leads that have to go through the same thing. I guess the youth after the bubble burst is more pessimistic?

I could also say that it's the easiest way to produce a plot w/o having to hire a writer
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Man I'm glad you posted this. I was about to go rant in both the Okami Kakushi and Omamori Himari about this exact thing. Both of these show's males had more estrogen than their female cast, and it was difficult to watch. Worst of all they had annoying voices to go with it.

I think its a combination of everything listed so far. I think the biggest is that it tends to sour dvd sales when the harem lead does make a definite choice, because bitter fans don't add it to their collection. For other genres it allows them room to grow, rather than being a badass from the start. Given the typical target age, it makes sense.
 
QUOTE Given the typical target age

30-45 NEET otaku??
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But yah, protagonists, especially in harem shows, all need to be like Rance. GWAHAHAHA.
 
This QUOTE It is totally a Japan thing.

and this
QUOTE 30-45 NEET otaku

sum it all up. It's an idiotic trend, and I do agree with Megiddo about the whole self seeker thing we got going on over here in the u.s, but damn it if I'am wrong; I think people need to worry about their own happiness rather than a stranger. Screw the whole "as long as she is happy with him" nonesense I keep seeing in these anime/manga, she needs to be happy with YOU, because as far as we're aware; we each only live ONCE!
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nuff said.
 
QUOTE she needs to be happy with YOU.

Yeah, do it the manly Chinese way, and take her by force after slashing all the competitors to small slices and eating them
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QUOTE (Ausdoerrt @ Mar 28 2010, 09:59 PM)
Yeah, do it the manly Chinese way, and take her by force after slashing all the competitors to small slices and eating them
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ROFL, heck yes. I think now we've got it all down. No is not an option for her.
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Yup. Now excuse me while I go sharpen my Butterfly swords
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I see where you all are coming from in terms of a harem anime the protagonist is lacking the ability to be decisive. It would be boring is the protagonist decided day one even if you somewhat new the end result.

But even if the genre was not harem I find protagonists generally weak willed, no self esteem/confidence.

Im sure its possible to craft a plot with a protagonist who is NOT lacking self-esteem/confidence and make it good.

I understand its good to have broken protagonists so they have something to develop/work for. But hell of all things why self-confidence.

I just keep thinking pansy/ wtf suck it up that aint nothing to whine about. stop being such a girly man.

but yeah when was the last harem anime in which the protagonist has CONFIDENCE lol. I dont necessarily mean decisiveness.
 
^Ladies vs Butlers; but when they give them confidence they make them romance immune; as to appease the little pansies who don't get their favorite heroine picked in the end. I can still remember all the whiners from the days where the protagonists actually picked a girl. Heck, I could name some of them on this site right now, but I won't; it's just opening old wounds.
 
QUOTE
It is totally a Japan thing.

Answers all of your questions, Prideless. Hollywood is about overly muscular sweaty overconfident guys with the brain of a chicken crushing stuff. Japanese anime is about angsty kids with coming-of-age troubles. That stuff just is, I think one would need to conduct a detailed sociological research to get to the "why" of it. No idea if it's been done or not, probably yes but probably not in the West as most of good literature and research on anime is in Japanese, untranslated. The little there is of Western anime literature analysis degrades into Freudianism more often than not (like that one analysis of Akira from the phallic symbols present
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).
 
QUOTE
Hollywood is about overly muscular sweaty overconfident guys with the brain of a chicken crushing stuff. Japanese anime is about angsty kids with coming-of-age troubles.

On the hollywood side, let's take Woody Allen.
On the anime side, let's take GitS : SAC
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You're right about the angsty kids with coming-of-age problems, but the reason is simple : the main demographic target of those animes are kids (who are almost always angsty and with coming-of-age troubles), and having a hero who have common points with the viewer make the identification easier.

It also happen in American blockbusters : The hero of Transformers the movie is a teenager who goes out with Megan Fox, and the main target of the movie is, I bet, teenagers who would like to go out with Megan Fox.
 
QUOTE (AnimeWiz07 @ Mar 28 2010, 09:56 PM) Screw the whole "as long as she is happy with him" nonesense I keep seeing in these anime/manga, she needs to be happy with YOU, because as far as we're aware; we each only live ONCE!
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nuff said.
I so agree with that. When I hear that "as long as she is happy with him, I wont interfere", it makes me want to gag. I am not saying being selfish is right, but if you dont look after your own happiness, who else will? Naahhh, this attitude is just masked cowardice and hypocricy.

Either way, I agree that indecisiveness is a plot device and sometimes it gets annoying.

@pridless, I cannot agree however, that this is the trend. Doesnt this depend on the type of shows you are watching? I never watch harem animes, so I wouldnt notice. But other shows are just fine, I never thought Ichigo lacked confidence and naruto kun is overly confident considering his abilities too. It most certainly depends on the type of show you are watching.

Oh, @wedora: In what way was the protagonist in ookami kakushi femine? He was a totally normal teenager. Frankly, I am tired of the masculine superhero alà hollywood. In my opinion, this only puts preassure on men, because it makes them believe they are not allowed to have a weakness or something....
 
Isn't this also pretty much the same thing as anime characters not actually being, you know, full-fledged CHARACTERS but in fact just yet another embodiment of that particular archetype (meganekko, etc)? I don't get it as a westerner and it's basically there just as a replacement for any quality writing anime may have had, putting aside the whole Japanese social thing.

Seriously, I wouldn't say not to some "real" anime characters like those in Kure-nai, Eden of the East (another case where our main protagonist is anything but short of confidence... hell, he's like the total opposite of the trope) and Legend of Galactic Heroes.

Just realized I kinda went off-topic... carry on.
 
QUOTE It also happen in American blockbusters

A fairly recent development, and the idea is quite possibly snatched from anime. I can't say you could call the Trasnformers lead "angsty" of "unconfident" that much either, compared to anime standards at least.


QUOTE On the hollywood side, let's take Woody Allen.
On the anime side, let's take GitS : SAC

Neither belongs to the mainstream we're talking about. Irrelevant.



QUOTE anime characters not actually being, you know, full-fledged CHARACTERS

Any poorly-made Hollywood film (that's what, 90+% of them?
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) falls prey to this very idea. Tropes may differ, principles are the same.



QUOTE I cannot agree however, that this is the trend.

It is a trend, and a pretty predominant one. It's been with anime from very early on, and actually persists in most show genres, more in some then others. It seems most strong in mecha series (and from long before EVA, unlike some EVA fans like to claim) and romance/harem. I think whoever mentioned target audience was getting somewhere though, since it happens most in shounen (in a broad sense) shows, and least in seinen shows. In shoujo shows it gets replaced with the "cute but shy and unconfident normal girl" stereotype instead.

There are other trends, however, a big one being the "mysterious bishie" lead trend (a recent example would be Black from DtB).
 
QUOTE (Ausdoerrt @ Mar 29 2010, 04:37 AM) It is a trend, and a pretty predominant one. It's been with anime from very early on, and actually persists in most show genres, more in some then others. It seems most strong in mecha series (and from long before EVA, unlike some EVA fans like to claim) and romance/harem. I think whoever mentioned target audience was getting somewhere though, since it happens most in shounen (in a broad sense) shows, and least in seinen shows. In shoujo shows it gets replaced with the "cute but shy and unconfident normal girl" stereotype instead.


ok, but isnt that like the way anime has always been? I have been wachting anime regularly only over the past 5 years or so, but as far as I can tell, the protagonist has always been a little whiny and insecure about himself. I got so used to it, that it doesnt even ocurr to me as anyhing unusual anymore.... so, why would that be a trend? I would rather call it a characteristics of anime.
 
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