The Nature Of Reality

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EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
Agaidos: Have you ever learned Einstein's theory of relativity? It's responsible for a large portion of our modern day physics. All this "are you moving when you jump, or is the universe moving around you?" is just a way to visualize the basic concepts of it. And ultimately, the theory shows that time and space are NOT constant, they can bend and weave all over the place. The only constant, in fact, is the speed of light (no matter your perspective or speed, light always moves at the speed of light).

It's just a means to show the limitation of our perspectives. I mean, I don't see anyone claiming that they move the entire universe downwards every time they jump, and even if they did, it wouldn't make any difference in what we percieve. We only assume we move because it's the simplest answer, and makes it the preferable choice.

But I've got a software project meeting to run, so I'll give you all a big ol' sayonara for now!
 

outl-w_monsum

-chan
Kouhai
QUOTE
That is pretty much true, but the trouble lies in knowing that your senses can be lied to, and your mind can alter, skew, and completely rewrite what it is you experience. So if you were looking at a blue book, you could justifiably say that you seems to see something that resembles what I have come to know as a blue book. You can't actually say, "I'm seeing a blue book", because it could be a very good picture of a book, a hologram, it could be your brain getting high off drugs, you might just "want" to see the book so bad that your brain tells you a book is there, all kinds of crap, and regardless of which explanation is true, you experience the exact same thing.

I guess that just goes to show how limited our perception of things is.

Ahhhh - our senses can be lied to, i dont dispute that man, but you missed my point!


Basically, regardless of what is in fact real and what is not, there is basically something about the experience that makes the actual experience itself real, because it happened - i'm not talkin about the source of the experience, or what is there in an objective sense - its more to do with the fact that there is something there that is personal to me - that "blueness" or a feeling of say "happiness" that is completely real, because its there regardless of where it may hav come from (albeit from my own imagination! or even maybe a super computer - matrix lalala)


QUOTE (Agaidos @ Jan 22 2008, 04:36 PM)hahaha people have come so far to question the obvious.im sure that most of you all are well learned people and are highly intelligent. even so your applying all your smarts ridiculously.to put it simply, i dont understand why your questioning things that are so obvious.

if you jump, YOU jump.plain and simple. its ridiculous to question if the entire earth moves when you've most noteably pointed out that it was the result of your particular action.your moveing.not the earth.its almost like asking the question" when you run, is everything moveing and your staying still, or are you moveing?"
commen sense people, really.no reason to overstrain yourself mentally and exhaust possibilitys when your presented with what actually is.
also, how can you say that all knowledge is unknowable if the statement itself is an affirmation?if its a statement about whether knowledge can be known or not,and alledgedly claims it cant and itself is presented as knowledge about something, it undercuts itself.its as pointless as someone saying something along the lines of"a limited absence".it instantly contradicts the intended meaning.
really, if you've stated the diference between two things, why question them?
its like like when asking" when i look at blue, im not sure if its blue"what else could it be?through all that you've learned it is known by you, to be blue.it will always remain to be blue, and will always be blue on any plain of reality.the mind is not trying to withold any information, or intentionally manipulating you into beilieving it is, when it isnt.
reality is simply what is.



Dude, I LOVE you - read some of my previous posts and you'll understand why - common sense does indeed ROCK and RULE

BUT - these debates, are mentally (pointlessly) exhausting, AND fun exercises to see where we can stretch ideas - we arent trying to be practical really, we are just having a bit of fun - academic fun (i cant believe i said that, good thing that hardly anyone i actually know in real knows who i am on this!!! >.<)

But yah, way to go Agaidos - i salute you!
 

Agaidos

-chan
Kouhai
QUOTE (outl-w_monsum @ Jan 22 2008, 06:34 PM)QUOTE

Dude, I LOVE you - read some of my previous posts and you'll understand why - common sense does indeed ROCK and RULE

BUT - these debates, are mentally (pointlessly) exhausting, AND fun exercises to see where we can stretch ideas - we arent trying to be practical really, we are just having a bit of fun - academic fun (i cant believe i said that, good thing that hardly anyone i actually know in real knows who i am on this!!! >.<)

But yah, way to go Agaidos - i salute you!

i just read some of your previous posts, and yeah.my draw dropped...x_Xcommen sense, is all of what everyone needs.
hahahha you guys really seem to be in another league when it comes to all the questions you have in this matter and all of the opinions aswell.so ill just be simple minded average joe and be quiet.
:3
seriously dude....YOUR SMART!ooooooooooooooo.blow up my brain you did Xp
and eggbeast, really i looked over einsteins theory of relativeity and i dont think anytime soon im going to understand.hahahaha.
i dunno.you both are more suited to discuss this matter.
 

doomsayer

-Destroyer of Worlds
Sempai
The whole point of what was said, is that what you experience is only your perception of reality. We cannot know if when you run you move or the universe moves. There is no proof to the two statements so which one is real. Just like when you jump, yes you're jumping, but what is really moving you or the universe. If you know please do tell.
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
QUOTE (outl-w_monsum @ Jan 22 2008, 05:34 PM) Ahhhh - our senses can be lied to, i dont dispute that man, but you missed my point!

Oh no, no, no, no, don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying. Not only that, but I completely agree with you. I'm just trying to say that it's very difficult to fully conclude what it is that "you having your senses sense things" actually proves. You being alive and aware proves that something exists.

But yeah, it's always a good idea to take things like that at face value, if for nothing more than sanity's sake.


QUOTE seriously dude....YOUR SMART!ooooooooooooooo.blow up my brain you did Xp
and eggbeast, really i looked over einsteins theory of relativeity and i dont think anytime soon im going to understand.hahahaha.
i dunno.you both are more suited to discuss this matter.
NNNNNOOOOooooo!!! We need more perspective, man! Me and outl-w_monsum, we get uber-abstract about stuff! I'm talkin' like, insanely abstract, and then we analyze each other's abstract comments, and notice tiny, abstract flaws in them, and use those as grounds to clobber one another, which is awesome in it's own right, but don't leave just because we don't make any sense! Getting different perspective is what it's all about!

But beyond that, I'm not so sure about this argument that this discussion here is ultimately meaningless. I think if more people could wrap their heads around some of these principles we're talking about (basically complicated ways of saying we don't know anything at all
), it would help keep their own "knowledge" in perspective, and help in being more tolerant and understanding of others. And then, if you really want to nit-pick about it, what's "important" is really dependent upon the individual, and what they want in their own life. If someone really wants to think about how they know nothing, then hey, maybe they'll learn something new along the way (which is funny when you think about it, but also very, very awesome
).


QUOTE (i cant believe i said that, good thing that hardly anyone i actually know in real knows who i am on this!!! >.<)
I can just imagine you, up there in the UK, going around, calling people "blokes", eating a biscuit, which is actually a cookie, and speaking in an accent that makes you sound at least 10 times more intelligent than you actually are! Pshaw! If your friends found out who you were on here, I'd imagine they'd call you a bloke, give you a so-called "biscuit", and somehow make everything here sound incredibly stupid, through sheer power of than awesome accent! yeah, I know nothing.

...which totally relates to this thread... because the UK exists.

...lol
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
here are some interesting theories philosophers have spoen of:
1) nature is defined belief (this was later qualified though by the comment that just because you believe you have millions in your bank account does not make it real because your bank manager does NOT believe the same thing)

2) according to quantum/metaphysics where every action creates and/or destroys a possible universe there is a universe where I am The God, however there's also a universe out there where you are

It's slightly off topic but it is not possible for us to define reality as our minds are not designed to function in such a way as to enable it, much in the same way that we cannot define anything significant about the physical universe we live in as saying "The universe is..." means absolutely nothing as it's purely an exercise in grammar

By the way do we REALLY want to know everything? And if we do are we really ready to know? And finally wouldn't life be boring without some mysteries left unsolved?
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
oh just remembered something, here's an interesting mental exercise for you all:
If you are a figment of my imagination but at the same time I am figment of yours, which of us is the insane one?
 

outl-w_monsum

-chan
Kouhai
QUOTE (Gustl1976 @ Feb 02 2008, 03:41 PM) here are some interesting theories philosophers have spoen of:
1) nature is defined belief (this was later qualified though by the comment that just because you believe you have millions in your bank account does not make it real because your bank manager does NOT believe the same thing)

2) according to quantum/metaphysics where every action creates and/or destroys a possible universe there is a universe where I am The God, however there's also a universe out there where you are

It's slightly off topic but it is not possible for us to define reality as our minds are not designed to function in such a way as to enable it, much in the same way that we cannot define anything significant about the physical universe we live in as saying "The universe is..." means absolutely nothing as it's purely an exercise in grammar

By the way do we REALLY want to know everything? And if we do are we really ready to know? And finally wouldn't life be boring without some mysteries left unsolved?
This is really random, but your ideas and way of presenting them sounds awfully familiar......are you a teacher at Forest?

Just really curious lol.

And yeah, I will get back to philosophy as soon as I can get chemistry out of the way - have a huge-ass final on tuesday *sigh*
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
no I'm not a teacher, I have in the past dabbled in reading pretty obscure books and had way too much time to think about things. Also, I tend to listen to things more than people realise.
It's amazing what you find out if you keep an open-mind and let other people tell you such as that there is a distinct relationship between music and mathematics.
I enjoy discussing ideas with people as my mind tends to work in several tangents at once so I often loose track of my best thoughts.

I can say this one thing about the universe I exist in: I am at it's centre from a philosophical perspective. As far as my physical universe and it's reality only the things I can personally experience can be definitely be said to known as real by me thus wherever I go I am at the centre as my universe travels with me.
It's an old concept really, even the Celts belives that everybody exists in their own universe, when we interact with other our universes overlap for that time.

By the way did you know that the only place infinity can exist is inside a persons mind?

I hasten to add there are a great deal many people that consider me quite strange and an equal number of people who are worried about my sanity
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
QUOTE (Gustl1976 @ Feb 02 2008, 02:41 PM) It's slightly off topic but it is not possible for us to define reality as our minds are not designed to function in such a way as to enable it, much in the same way that we cannot define anything significant about the physical universe we live in as saying "The universe is..." means absolutely nothing as it's purely an exercise in grammar
Isn't it strange that this thread has gotten as long as it has given how each of us knows that reality is undefined, and cannot ever be defined (at least not accurately, anyone can smack a definition onto a word). ah, it's all about the tangents man, it's all about the tangents.

But I can't really imagine a form of life that could understand reality (throwing gods out of the mix). Everything we know comes from our senses, yes? So the sum of our knowledge is always subjective, even disregarding the fact that our minds warp our memories and perceptions as it pleases. Even if we were entirely objective in learning about the universe, we would only know a very small slice of the world that's out their, and we'd have know way of knowing how much of that slice was actually "real".

So of course we make assumptions. Assumptions let us function, keep us sane.


QUOTE By the way do we REALLY want to know everything? And if we do are we really ready to know? And finally wouldn't life be boring without some mysteries left unsolved?
I recall the old adage, "The more you learn, the more you realize you understand nothing". So, being uber-stricto off of what you said, that the mysteries of life make it interesting, doesn't the world really become more interesting the more you learn about it? As you learn more and more about the world around you, you gain more perspectives on it, and realize just how many unanswered question there are.

But I do agree with your notion. If we could hypothetically know everything, that would just be... torture. ...maybe not. But I'm not intending on becoming a god anytime soon.


But thanks for the ideas Gustl, and hooray for a new poster!
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
no problem glad I could contribute and neverb forget the 2 most annoying scientific principles you will ever meet are:

1)Simply by observing a phenomena you have changed it

2)Occham's Razor: The simplest explaination is most often the right one

In other words we have no way of knowing the truth, we can only make a rough guess based on what we understand.

I'll attempt to finish off now by adding that H.P.Lovecraft wrote in one of his sci-fi stories a very true fact that truth is a terrifying thing and if science showed us what the universe really is and what we are we would run screaming back into ignorance.
 

outl-w_monsum

-chan
Kouhai
QUOTE (Gustl1976 @ Feb 02 2008, 04:52 PM) no problem glad I could contribute and neverb forget the 2 most annoying scientific principles you will ever meet are:

1)Simply by observing a phenomena you have changed it

2)Occham's Razor: The simplest explaination is most often the right one

In other words we have no way of knowing the truth, we can only make a rough guess based on what we understand.

I'll attempt to finish off now by adding that H.P.Lovecraft wrote in one of his sci-fi stories a very true fact that truth is a terrifying thing and if science showed us what the universe really is and what we are we would run screaming back into ignorance.
i wouldnt say those two things are annoying - and truth would only be terrifying for those who aren't willing to face reality (escapists). When you know the truth, you can finally be at rest, because there is no need to question


so from some perspective what Lovecraft has said is not true - unless of course there is some basis to that claim? were there arguments for Lovecraft's fear?

also, Occham's razor, in my humble opinion, is SUGOI (amazing). Makes things simpler. Although that doesnt necessarily mean that its right, it puts things into a perspective and explains things in a way that is universally understandable, thereby bringing us altogether in our ideas and unifying what we know

and the other thing - observing phenomena - i am a little unclear about what you meant >.<

if you meant that every time we look at something it changes, then its something i havent thought about enough to comment.

feed on that
 

doomsayer

-Destroyer of Worlds
Sempai
QUOTE (outl-w_monsum @ Feb 03 2008, 12:22 AM) and the other thing - observing phenomena - i am a little unclear about what you meant >.<
In quantum mechanics you can know one of two things. Which are the location or the speed and direction of something. Knowing one of these two will prevent you from knowing the other.

Unless that is not what they were talking about.
 

Gustav1976

-sama
Retired
that correct, also speaking in more egenral terms. In order of us mere humans to observe something we need at least one of our sense to participate and by doing so we have introduced something which wouldnt normally be there ourself.

I simple example would be if you wanted to observe happens with a particle inside what would otherwise be a complete vacuum we would normally not be able to tell unless we put a probe of somesort inside but that is introducing an object that shouldnt be there.
Or we cannot see what is happening because our eyes require light so we would have to introduce light which is adding something else again.

Also there is the fact every particle in our universe affects those around it so by observing something we affect the particles near us which will in turn affect those particles around them and so.
The end result is that we have affected what is happening.

As for H.P.Lovecraft I'm glad you noticed the flaw in that quote as he wrote during a time when Darwinist theory was not as acepted as it is today and the quote I used was about a man who finds out he is descended from apes. Well done to you
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
*oh noes!* It's been over 2 months since anyone has publicly mused upon reality?

Me, I'm realizing all the more how little someone can really know about anything. I've been looking back on my life over the past few years, and realize how much my views have changed. I find that now I'm much less of a (philosophically-speaking) firebrand, much less extreme in my ideas. I've seen the noble pursuit of science go from a novelty, to the sum of everything meaningful in life, to nothing, and back again.

The way I see the world, and the people inside of it, is continuously changing. It doesn't mean any of my views were "wrong" per-say, only that they were... different.

Perspective is everything. You can always look at the world, the universe, in a new light. The relativity is tremendous. (which, going slightly off-topic, is why I find it so disgraceful that people cannot tolerate one another for having different beliefs, but less accept them.)

Science is... quite simply, amazing. The idea that we can explain, predict, create, and destroy... well... anything, and all the proof and evidence we've gotten to support those ideas, it's mind blowing. Maintaining our observations by creating as simple explanations as possible is definitely the way to go. That alone doesn't make simplicity correct, it only makes it... beautiful.

It's insane how tormented man can become by coupling their insatiable lust to understand everything with their inability to know anything. It definitely keeps life interesting, though.
 

outl-w_monsum

-chan
Kouhai
LOOOONGGGGGG

I fink, dat most o' u lot fink 2 much bout dis stuf.

What I am trying to say is that the complex thought processes that we go through to reach such conclusions are in fact instinctualy attainable through simply realising without contemplating. Relying on our instincts to lead us. How else could we have survived as a species and developed into what we are? Cavemen just did what they felt like, when they felt like hehe.

AND - when you truly understand how everything is nothing (I mean EVERYthing - even yourself), then you truly realise how little you know. Being wise is being aware that you are insignificant and potentially nothing - so, an idiot, could be seen as being wise, if they are aware that they are an idiot.

Everything is nothing

(PS, in a MASSIVE bad mood right now - my room-mate is as hygienic as the most unhygienic thing you can think of) - I went home for a few days, and I return to a F***ing S***hole.
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Kouhai
QUOTE (outl-w_monsum @ Apr 16 2008, 05:34 PM)I fink, dat most o' u lot fink 2 much bout dis stuf.

Just a little remainder not everyone in this forum speaks English as their first language so don't use excessive slang.

I think the main problem is that reality has not been defined. Until we can form some definition on what reality is we will never arrive at a conclusive answer i.e we could be talking until the cows come home. It is a bit like saying what is right and wrong? Until you define such terms you will never arrive at a conclusion. All talk will be about relatives, human nature, circumstances etc.


QUOTE What I am trying to say is that the complex thought processes that we go through to reach such conclusions are in fact instinctualy attainable through simply realising without contemplating. Relying on our instincts to lead us. How else could we have survived as a species and developed into what we are? Cavemen just did what they felt like, when they felt like hehe.

Ah but cavemen used their intelligence too! Sure they did not have computers or cars but they developed tools. They also used used animals (who were much harder than them) to achieve their goals. Yes instinct played a big part in their survival but to say intelligence (complex thought processes) didn't play a big part would not tell the whole truth.


QUOTE AND - when you truly understand how everything is nothing (I mean EVERYthing - even yourself), then you truly realise how little you know.

I'm not sure I'm reading this right but here goes... There are many things I don't know yet it is not an excuse not to learn. I mean hypothetically speaking if I knew everything I would realise how little I did know. This in my opinion is a bit negative. If we take the other perspective if I know nothing today I could know a bit more tomorrow and even more the following day until eventually I know everything in the distant future.


QUOTE Being wise is being aware that you are insignificant and potentially nothing - so, an idiot, could be seen as being wise, if they are aware that they are an idiot.

Having an over inflated opinion of yourself is a barrier to greater knowledge. To use a... (good god I don't know if I can use this word) REAL life example a study has shown that child geniuses often do not go on to great things. Sure they may become doctors, professors but nothing truly outstanding. One of the main hindrances found was many of these children realised they were genius and as result did not try (they thought everything would come to them easily).

On the other hand the less intelligent person (the idiot in your example) had more drive and did not have such a high opinion of themselves. They ended up achieving more than the genius. That's not to say the less intelligent person wasn't gifted, simply they weren't a genius. Didn't Thomas Edison once say:


QUOTE (Thomas Edison)Genius is 1% Inspiration, 99% perspiration.


QUOTE (PS, in a MASSIVE bad mood right now - my room-mate is as hygienic as the most unhygienic thing you can think of) - I went home for a few days, and I return to a F***ing S***hole.

I have seen some pretty horrific things when it comes to messy rooms!
The worst being the plate argument. In this scenario we had a number of plates that went missing. 3 months later we found them hidden in a cupboard. Let me just say the site was pretty horrific!
Another bad occasion was when I found a dead mouse in the kitchen sink floating beside some unwashed dishes. When I held the mouse it was all stiff and rigid (shudders). Suffice to say I don't want to experience that again!


QUOTE (EggBeast @ Apr 12 2008, 08:37 AM)The way I see the world, and the people inside of it, is continuously changing. It doesn't mean any of my views were "wrong" per-say, only that they were... different.

The truth can hurt sometimes. Give in and admit to the truth (you were wrong)! The feeling of being honest is quite good!
Who knows you might give yourself a pat on the shoulder! As patting is half a hug...
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
QUOTE (outl-w_monsum @ Apr 16 2008, 10:34 AM) What I am trying to say is that the complex thought processes that we go through to reach such conclusions are in fact instinctualy attainable through simply realising without contemplating. Relying on our instincts to lead us. How else could we have survived as a species and developed into what we are? Cavemen just did what they felt like, when they felt like hehe.
What I love so much about this topic, is that it ultimately leads to no conclusions. "right" and "wrong" or in the eyes of the beholder. There are so many ways that different people can look at the world, it becomes much easier to sympathize with other people's views. For me, it's all about peace, love, understanding, tolerance, and all that great, hippie-stuff.

I don't really think these ideas can be gleaned from sheer instinct. Instinct tells you to take things at face value. It's when you actually start thinking about it that things fall apart.
(and besides, I don't know if you're in a position to say we think too much about it if you look over the past 5 pages of this thread.
and filthy roommates suck, I can relate.)


QUOTE (monsta666 @ Apr 17 2008, 10:57 AM)I'm not sure I'm reading this right but here goes... There are many things I don't know yet it is not an excuse not to learn. I mean hypothetically speaking if I knew everything I would realise how little I did know. This in my opinion is a bit negative. If we take the other perspective if I know nothing today I could know a bit more tomorrow and even more the following day until eventually I know everything in the distant future.
What's this about? You can always learn more. ALWAYS. Whenever you learn something, you also learn about more things you still need to figure out. I think you make a mistake is assuming there's a finite number of things to learn. Even if we can answer "what" to everything, there's always the "why", something that I don't think can be fully answered. There's always that innate uncertainty this thread goes on about all the time.


QUOTE (monsta666 @ Apr 17 2008, 10:57 AM)The truth can hurt sometimes. Give in and admit to the truth (you were wrong)! The feeling of being honest is quite good! Who knows you might give yourself a pat on the shoulder! As patting is half a hug...
Hugs are awesome and everything, but I think you misunderstood me. Just because you see something from a different perspective doesn't make it right or wrong. Take good ol' Einstein's theory of relativity for example. An uber-fast space ship and a child on a bike could see a train moving at entirely different speeds. Neither of them are wrong, because with respect to them, the train IS moving at different speeds! Perspective is everything, it's what makes life so beautiful. To look at something in two different ways, and (heaven forbid), change your opinion of it, does NOT mean that you were wrong about it before. Saying that makes the faulty assumption that ultimately there is only one truth.

Stuff rules!
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Kouhai
QUOTE (EggBeast @ Apr 18 2008, 08:28 AM) What I love so much about this topic, is that it ultimately leads to no conclusions. There are so many ways that different people can look at the world, it becomes much easier to sympathize with other people's views. For me, it's all about peace, love, understanding, tolerance, and all that great, hippie-stuff.

It's one of the reasons I did not define reality. Due to the nature of this debate I thought it would be counter productive to make one, after all I don't want to spoil your fun!
Peace and love are beautiful things and I always make an effort in relating to others. That said just because I can relate to someone doesn't mean I will tolerate them. As for being a hippie I'm not green enough, love nature enough and I don't smoke pot so I fail there! I don't mind people smoking a bit of weed or skunk but I don't do the stuff.


QUOTE "right" and "wrong" or in the eyes of the beholder.

I disagree with you here. I believe what is right and wrong is largely determined by the norms of society. We can commit "wrong" acts if we want but it is society that deems what is wrong and right. Such things stems from societies views on ethics. If society had no ethics then there would be no right and wrong, at least in the moral sense of the word.


QUOTE What's this about? You can always learn more. ALWAYS. Whenever you learn something, you also learn about more things you still need to figure out.

Blame my crummy English (it's not my strong point) but you misunderstand. The main point I was trying to make was that the fear of ignorance should not be an excuse to stop learning. This was a response to outl-w_monsum's statement that IF we knew everything we would realise how ignorant we are hence what is the point in learning. At least that was the point I think they were trying to make (it could be yet another misunderstanding). In any case I was speaking hypothetically, it is clearly impossible to learn everything!


QUOTE Hugs are awesome and everything, but I think you misunderstood me. Just because you see something from a different perspective doesn't make it right or wrong.

I was only messing with you!
I got your point. Banter (and sarcasm) tend to fail on the internet (words simply lack the depth of speech
). There was a lot of misunderstandings going around on my post. I am truly a monster!
 
Okay. Normally, I would show some restraint before barging in on a resonable arguement. But, seeing as... well, the point is, I am.

Hah.

Another note. It seems like every time I see Monsta666, I picture a hobbling old man, for some reason, you seem like an old man to me. Are you an old man, sir?

Seriously, I don't know what's up with that.

I appologize. (hope I spelled that right...)

but anyways, on to the point!

even if its a bit... well, stupid, really, and even though it sort of contradicts the point of this whole thing, the matrix did make a valid point. The only reason we define things as real is if we can touch them, see them, all that materialistic crap we live and love. And though I (logically speaking) could care less about what reality is, It uses my time, so I will continue to blabber on, listen well, my chillies.

And yeah. It would majorly suck... well, you know, for the matrix idea to be real. So I'm going for the following theory:

"Shit happened, here we are, live with it."

Still. would be funny if the matrix was right. Not like 'ha ha' funny, more like, "holy crap, this blows' funny.

You frown now, but later, you'll be like, "heh. It iiiiiis funnnnneyyyyy!!!"

signing off. *salutes*

... pfffft ....
 
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