Homo Sexuality


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QUOTE (chiisai_hana @ Apr 25 2006, 02:09 PM) @Satesphiar: if homosexuality isn't normal, then you can argue our entire society is not normal. How is it that man can create all these 'abnormal' things yet not accept love between two people of the same sex?
In all the post I have made here in this thread I have never not accepted homosexuals. I have just been saying they are different people, with an abnormal sense of attraction....why can't u agree with that....it's so strange.
"How is it that man can create all these 'abnormal' things yet not accept love between two people of the same sex?" - what is that supposed to mean....that logic can so easily be disfigured - everyone does not accept the same ideology...it depends on their own ideology....why wud everyone have to accept the same thing!!!??? Don't judge the Human society as a whole bcos it makes things more complicated...after all it's about the difference opinions and views....that brings me bak to the fact that homosexual guys are really necessary - so that all of th heterosexual guys can go and find more girls for them...
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(sorry for losing the seriousness...I am not really able to keep arguing about it bcos we are here to share our opinions - not change someone else's opinion...as it merely is impossible...so for me it's pointless to keep on fighting. I don't want to make enemies over something so touchy....Bold, Darkdog, IrregularGanime, chiisai_hana and anyone i've argued with in this thread...please don't make me ur enemy. Furthermore I'm not taking part in this thread any longer.)
 
QUOTE (Satesphiar @ Apr 25 2006, 09:26 PM) In all the post I have made here in this thread I have never not accepted homosexuals. I have just been saying they are different people, with an abnormal sense of attraction....why can't u agree with that....it's so strange.
"How is it that man can create all these 'abnormal' things yet not accept love between two people of the same sex?" - what is that supposed to mean....that logic can so easily be disfigured - everyone does not accept the same ideology...it depends on their own ideology....why wud everyone have to accept the same thing!!!??? Don't judge the Human society as a whole bcos it makes things more complicated...after all it's about the difference opinions and views....that brings me bak to the fact that homosexual guys are really necessary - so that all of th heterosexual guys can go and find more girls for them...
tongue.gif
(sorry for losing the seriousness...I am not really able to keep arguing about it bcos we are here to share our opinions - not change someone else's opinion...as it merely is impossible...so for me it's pointless to keep on fighting. I don't want to make enemies over something so touchy....Bold, Darkdog, IrregularGanime, chiisai_hana and anyone i've argued with in this thread...please don't make me ur enemy. Furthermore I'm not taking part in this thread any longer.)

hey man, you know me. I already said before I don't hate someone just because they may be unreasonable or whatever the reason is.

It's your opinion. Of course there will be disagreement. But the fact that we disagree with each other only goes to show we are learning more of each other. Turning out good or bad in the end only depends on that individual. However, you had a specific reason, so I don't see why I should even find it unreasonable.

I understand what you mean. Still, just accept them. That is all they ask for. It's uncomfortable if a guys walks up to you, though kind of touchy with most guys, I actually find it a compliment. It takes courage for a man to approch a straight dude.

If one like this approches you. Reframe this negative thinking.

For me is, "The fact that he had the guts to walk up to me only goes to show that I'm actually good looking, or attractive in some way." Men can see something women don't see in men, and that is actually how I change my negative thoughts to a positive one. It's pretty fun. It's ok to reject them. They can accept it. Some are persistant, so just be persistant as well, and reject willfully and politely, both sides won't feel bad.

Why I say this?
...
...happened to me before. Ha ha, but it was fun talking to him after the reject. I find gays and bis and les have a lot of amusing things to share compared to current friends. Try it if it ever happens. you'll make a friend, and also probably a good friend.
 
another thing i'd like to add is that gay people are different from straight people -- that's obvious. but i'm different from most people as well, because i watch anime and i chose to learn japanese (there are more gay people than people who speak japanese, in the US...
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).. others are different because they don't like to watch tv, or because they wear different clothes, they listen to different music...

my point being, it's true that they're different, but aren't we all?

/jp
 
@IrregularGanime-chi
Do not triple post!!! Next time edit your post.
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---
What chisai_hana meant was "what can you call abnormal?" and more importantly, "what truly is normal". Since the concept of normality is a variable one, it is hard to use it as an argument.

Finally, saying something is abnormal, definatly has a negetive and prejorative sound to it.

---
I would like to re-center the debate. So far most people have exposed why, from their personnal values and beliefs, they think to be gays is correct or not. This si kind of a superficial discussion.

The more profound question is, when you meet someone who says he is gay, how would you react. You may not like the concept of being gay because it goes against your beliefs, but what of an actual person? Lets say you work with one, would you simply ignore him, be cold to him or would you start a full speach on why he should change?

What I mean is that no one can ignore the fact that some people will want to have homosexual relationships. It cannot be prevented (the part of people wanting to). Once that is established, all we can change is the way we react to those people AND we can also try to have administrative or legal ways to address this issue.

So the question remains. What position should be taken toward gay people.
 
/jp

i dont know how to tell you this but i will try QUOTE in my opinion, living natural life as a human is choosing what i want to do based on my instincts, my thoughts, my ideals and my feelings -- body, mind, soul and heart. and if these decided that i loved a man, why not? according to the definition of "natural human life", that's a perfectly acceptable concept if your instincts tell you to make love with a man than you need a psychological treatment because the instincts of normal people tell them to be attracted to other sex
to make it easyer if are some one that dont believe in god and you are in the sea and you are in a big storm and there are no hope of surviving or any help what will you do ? you will pray for god to get you out of there although you are not a believer of god than way you did that becuase of your human innate and how did i know that you will do that because it is normal for human innate to tell you to do that .and this is how i know that you need psychological treatment if love to make love with a man (because it is against human innate)

sory for my english
 
QUOTE (IrregularGanime @ Apr 26 2006, 10:09 AM)in english please.
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hmm, that was english. A triple post is when you post 3 times in a row!
Next time, put all you have to say in a single post. You have an edit button so if you need to change something, you can.
I was refering to these posts here: http://boards.fansub.tv/index.php?showtopi...indpost&p=58441

so ...
doubleposter14iy.gif


(sorry, I only have one for double posts, not for triple posts!!)
 
QUOTE (mohammed2006 @ Apr 26 2006, 02:56 PM) i dont know how to tell you this but i will try if your instincts tell you to make love with a man than you need a psychological treatment because the instincts of normal people tell them to be attracted to other sex
to make it easyer if are some one that dont believe in god and you are in the sea and you are in a big storm and there are no hope of surviving or any help what will you do ? you will pray for god to get you out of there although you are not a believer of god than way you did that becuase of your human innate and how did i know that you will do that because it is normal for human innate to tell you to do that .and this is how i know that you need psychological treatment if love to make love with a man (because it is against human innate)

sory for my english
i understand what you mean, but you didn't understand exactly what i said.

for example, it is innate for us to sleep during the night. however, some people (like me) go to bed much later than that. so, even though our instinct is to sleep at night, we go against that instinct, we defy that instinct and stay up until 3 or 4am.
you defy the instinct to eat when you know you're allergic to that food; people defy the purpose of their bodies when they remove hairs, for example; you defy instincts all the time, and that's what makes you human! most animals can't defy their instincts!

so a gay person defies another instinct.. if it didn't involve sex, it would be like all the other things we defy...

regarding the example you said.. if a man wasn't taught religion, he wouldn't pray! he would struggle until he was dead, like an animal -- and that's what i'd do. Instead of praying and waiting for a miracle to happen, i would try to deserve that miracle -- i would swim until the very end of my strengths hoping to be saved at some point.

and you don't have to be sorry about your english.. you're trying your best, right?
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/jp
 
QUOTE (darkdog @ Apr 26 2006, 09:20 PM) for example, it is innate for us to sleep during the night. however, some people (like me) go to bed much later than that. so, even though our instinct is to sleep at night, we go against that instinct, we defy that instinct and stay up until 3 or 4am.
you defy the instinct to eat when you know you're allergic to that food; people defy the purpose of their bodies when they remove hairs, for example; you defy instincts all the time, and that's what makes you human! most animals can't defy their instincts!

It can't be called to defy our instincts when we don't have those instincts ^^
Instincts is to act a certain way to certain kinds of stimuli. If we all don't act the same way when experiencing that stimuli it ain't instinct. So your so called instincts your saying we have does not exist. Therefore we can't defy them as we don't have them either.
 
QUOTE (IrregularGanime @ Apr 26 2006, 11:36 AM) ............you're talking about three DIFFERENT post you mean.
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Having more than one post in a row is against forum rules. People often do it to boost post counts. So if you need to make three posts in a row, next time just edit it all into one long post and you won't be breaking any rules.



QUOTE if your instincts tell you to make love with a man than you need a psychological treatment because the instincts of normal people tell them to be attracted to other sex

You know, all relationships don't have to focus on sex. What if two guys really cared about each other and wanted to live together? Isn't it better that they do that, rather than getting messed up in relationships with girls they might not care much about? (But then that gets into the whole idealistic "it's what's inside that counts" argument)
 
QUOTE (Daedroth @ Apr 26 2006, 08:36 PM) It can't be called to defy our instincts when we don't have those instincts ^^
Instincts is to act a certain way to certain kinds of stimuli. If we all don't act the same way when experiencing that stimuli it ain't instinct. So your so called instincts your saying we have does not exist. Therefore we can't defy them as we don't have them either.
so, let me think.. when you scare a person, he runs to the right. when you scare another, he runs to the left. so running is not an instinct? eating is not an instinct? so what instincts do we have?

/jp
 
QUOTE (darkdog @ Apr 26 2006, 11:29 PM) so, let me think.. when you scare a person, he runs to the right. when you scare another, he runs to the left. so running is not an instinct? eating is not an instinct? so what instincts do we have?

/jp
What makes you think everybody runs when they get scared?
And no, eating is not an instinct. You can starve yourself to death, therefore it cannot be an instinct if you don't eat because if it was an instinct you would eat no matter what if you became hungry as long as there's food in the vicinity.
I would say we don't have any instincts after having reached a certain age. Baby's got instincts because they react in certain way to certain stimuli, however when you reach the age when you can think properly you will lose all your instincts because you are able to control yourself with your will.
 
QUOTE (Daedroth @ Apr 26 2006, 05:56 PM) Baby's got instincts because they react in certain way to certain stimuli, however when you reach the age when you can think properly you will lose all your instincts because you are able to control yourself with your will. That is exactly what darkdog has been saying. Adult still have instincts, but they use their councious minds to decide to over rule what their instincts are telling them.

For example, if you decided to not eat to protest lets say cruelty to children, it does not mean that when I put a plate of your favorite food in front of your eyes you stomach will not tell you "I WANT FOOD!!". But you can decide to not act on that instinct.
 
QUOTE (Bold @ Apr 27 2006, 12:29 AM) That is exactly what darkdog has been saying. Adult still have instincts, but they use their councious minds to decide to over rule what their instincts are telling them.

For example, if you decided to not eat to protest lets say cruelty to children, it does not mean that when I put a plate of your favorite food in front of your eyes you stomach will not tell you "I WANT FOOD!!". But you can decide to not act on that instinct.
I think you misread what I wrote. I'm saying that we don't have instincts any more because we are able to control ourselves with our will. But darkdog say that we still have instincts but we are able override it with our will. There's a difference. I'm saying it's just plain wrong to say we have instincts when it ain't instincts anymore. You can't say we still have instincts when we are able to decide for ourselves how to react to stimuli. It just ain't instincts anymore.
 
reflexes are an instinct, fear is usually an instinct, sexual drive is an instinct. and i had biology until my 12th grade, i just rechecked to make sure i wasn't wrong. we don't forget instincts, we just become capable of overcoming them (for example, your first reaction when you get scared is to jump back, but when you manage to think, you'll stop.

instincts are faster than a rational thought, and that's why immediate reactions aren't always rational.

/jp
 
QUOTE (darkdog @ Apr 27 2006, 12:49 AM) reflexes are an instinct, fear is usually an instinct, sexual drive is an instinct. and i had biology until my 12th grade, i just rechecked to make sure i wasn't wrong. we don't forget instincts, we just become capable of overcoming them (for example, your first reaction when you get scared is to jump back, but when you manage to think, you'll stop.

instincts are faster than a rational thought, and that's why immediate reactions aren't always rational.

/jp
That's why it ain't instincts. It's like saying you don't have free will but you are able to overcome that with your free will. It just doesn't make any sense. And it has not been decided wether reflexes are instincts yet. Sociologists are still arguing about wether reflexes can be considered instincts so that's just an assumption made from your side.
 
well, we all know that men rationally choose to betray their wives (or the other way around), it's not like they have any sort of irrational influence on that.. *rolleyes*

if reflexes aren't, what is fear? why are some people afraid of flying and not afraid of traveling by car, when the 2nd is way more dangerous? why are people afraid of heights even when they're on a safe place? and what about the sexual drive, if it's not an instinct what is it???

/jp
 
QUOTE (darkdog @ Apr 27 2006, 01:15 AM) well, we all know that men rationally choose to betray their wives (or the other way around), it's not like they have any sort of irrational influence on that.. *rolleyes*

if reflexes aren't, what is fear? why are some people afraid of flying and not afraid of traveling by car, when the 2nd is way more dangerous? why are people afraid of heights even when they're on a safe place? and what about the sexual drive, if it's not an instinct what is it???

/jp
Fear is a state of mind where you become afraid of certain scenarios. You feel fear towards certain scenarios because of cultural influence. There is always a reason for feeling fear in certain scenarios. Sexual drive is not an intinct because you are able to control it. It's true that if you see something you find hot you will get sexually aroused. However, you are able to stop it there and not take it to the next step. You're able to control yourself so you don't go around raping everybody you find hot. Therefore it's not instinct because you're able to control it. Because we are able to control it we cannot say that we still have the instincts.
 
oh, come on.. i've been saying from the start that instincts are controllable up to a point!!

from wikipedia (not the most reliable source, but still reliable enough)

QUOTE Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular behavior. Instincts are generally inherited patterns of responses or reactions to certain kinds of stimuli. In humans they are most easily observed in behaviors such as emotions, sexual drive, and other bodily functions, as these are largely biologically determined. Instinct provides a response to external stimuli, which moves an organism to action, unless overridden by intelligence, which is creative and hence far more versatile. Since instincts take generations to adapt, an intermediate position, or basis for action, is served by memory, which provides individually stored successful reactions built upon experience. The particular actions performed may be influenced by learning, environment and natural principles. Generally, the term instinct is not used to describe an existing condition or established state.

[...]

It is debatable whether or not living beings are bound absolutely by instinct. Though instinct is what seems to come naturally or perhaps with heredity, general conditioning and environment surrounding a living being play a major role. Predominately, instinct is pre-intellectual, while intuition is trans-intellectual.

feel free to continuing inventing a new meaning for the word "instinct", i won't make part on that argument anymore. go get your science books, go read them, and if you still think you're right publish an article on that -- you'll change everyone's notion of instinct, so you'll be famous!

damn.. it's incredible how you don't notice you have both. you just said you manage to control sexual drive. doesn't the fact that it needs to be controlled make you realize it's not an intelectual thing?? its influence is there, most of the people have to fight their urges, and if there were no instincts there would be nothing to control / fight against in the first place! If you had no instinct, you wouldn't think of having sex with all the hot girls you laid your eyes on!!

/jp
 
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