Claymore (manga)

[Norren]

I'm still trying to get a feel for the timescale.

"It's been three months since we were all called back to the organization to protect it from a possible rebellion from a #1 and #2 we've never seen". The Timing on this is utterly whack. Either they called them back with that lie when they lost contact with Alicia and Beth, or they called everyone back with that lie when they mobilized the two. Either way, more time has passed than makes sense with that comment.

Also, I think Rubel completely missed the point when he commented on how lacking Miria's leadership skills are. Miria is a charismatic, not a leader.

As an aside, did anyone else get an idea the new twins were disappointed in their win from the flashback shot of their faces?

 

[Hiasubi]

QUOTE (Repede @ Mar 10 2011, 05:56 PM)
Now let's all join hands and pray Riful comes back as well.

Never she should stay gone

Although id trade Riful for both Raki and Pris any day

 

[Hiasubi]

Wow, 2 years since a post in this thread? I weep.

Anyway, the battle between Pris and the Abyssal continue. It's good to see Pris actual be at a disadvantage instead of all devouring. But I get the impression this is a temporary set back at most. If Pris actually dies here I'll be genuinely surprised. But at the same time I kinda want that to happen. Since it Pris dies then presumably either the story ends, or we can actually explore the larger island part of the story. I mean we got a glimpse of the type of things back at the Organisation so it would be nice to see it head in that direction. Plus with the Organisation pretty much gone, what is really left to tell on this island.? Pretty much anyone of real important is in or around the Holy City, so all the big players are hear and will mostly reach the resolution in a year or so short of Pris getting killed.

But back to the chapter, it was good to see Galatea get some panel time. Though did I misunderstand something, Cassandra - I think that's her name - said her and Galatea go way back but they are from a different generation of Warriors, so Galatea knew her before she became a Claymore? But it would be nice to see that explored, since she seemed to have a mild hated for Galatea for some reason which would be nice to see.

And finally Clarice and Miata get there butt's moving, aside from seeing them after the time skip they have been rather absent so it will good to see what they can do.

Things are looking up.

 

[Nioki]

QUOTE (Hiasubi @ Jun 12 2013, 08:28 PM) Wow, 2 years since a post in this thread? I weep.

Anyway, the battle between Pris and the Abyssal continue. It's good to see Pris actual be at a disadvantage instead of all devouring. But I get the impression this is a temporary set back at most. If Pris actually dies here I'll be genuinely surprised. But at the same time I kinda want that to happen.
Thing is if yagi didn't make Priscilla lose in this fight, she would continue holding the image of an unstoppable force that would just be bull in every way and it would actually be too boring for the readers, so he needed that.

Even with that though, Priscilla probably wont lose the fight, or will be saved by some intervention rather than lose, because right now a lot of the microplot is focused on her and Clare's relations

Otherwise I'm also quite enjoying the manga, though the pace is still as horrible as ever due to once a month release speed

 

[Hiasubi]

QUOTE (Nioki @ Jun 12 2013, 10:58 PM)Thing is if yagi didn't make Priscilla lose in this fight, she would continue holding the image of an unstoppable force that would just be bull in every way and it would actually be too boring for the readers, so he needed that.

Even with that though, Priscilla probably wont lose the fight, or will be saved by some intervention rather than lose, because right now a lot of the microplot is focused on her and Clare's relations

Otherwise I'm also quite enjoying the manga, though the pace is still as horrible as ever due to once a month release speed
Pris really needs to lose or something needs to happen. She has been presented as this stupid powerful being which I admit she is, but her power has reached a point where she dwarfs all things and there isn't a chance of beating her short of release. Since right now I don't see anything that comes close to her power. Even if she loses this fight it doesn't really help, since she would lose through circumstance as opposed something being stronger than her.

Like right now we have the Survivors of the North and some of the best none single digits from the final gen of Warriors and they seems to be so ineffective against the current opponents.

The only way out I see right now is that thing that was mentioned a few chapters back about a Claymores potential and power being all about hatred of Youma. Since Claire would be similar but instead of Youma it would be Pris since I imagine Claire hatred of Pris engulfs Prises hatred of Youma and herself for killing her Dad wrongly.

I don't find the pacing horrible per sey. I guess it's probably because I just read ten chapters in one go 3 days ago, then read the new one today so maybe I don't find it that bad for that reason. But I imagine now I'm all caught up and going back to monthly I'll notice the pacing issues more.

 

[TNT]

I didn't even know we had this thread.

Still, I very much enjoy Claymore. Pacing is mostly a problem due to the monthly schedule. The issues themself are usually paced well enough.

I don't expect Priscilla to die, but hopefully she will be weakened enough for Clare to finish her off.

I also wonder about Cassandra, what will she do now? She's currently eating through the last few AB's. What will she do after, is she now really free from Priscilla?

Will she help against Priscilla?

I can't wait to see what's going to happen to Miata.
It seems like a very bad idea.
QUOTE (Galatea)"Oh no, a near Abyssal one is coming right for us, let's do an experimental awakening with the unhinged potential number 1 with the mindset of a 4 year old. No way that can end badly. "

 

[Misaka 10032]

" i want to see Raki trying to stop Priscilla. " Reply Misaka remembering Raki said he will stop Priscilla if she goes on rampage.

 

[TNT]

Holy crap this last chapter.
Miata look awesome, but I feel so sad for her panic when she started changing.

How dare they do that to what is in essence a kid.

Good to see an end to Riful.

Jst a bit of a weird way I suppose.

 

[Hiasubi]

QUOTE (TNT @ Jul 01 2013, 08:23 PM) Holy crap this last chapter.
Miata look awesome, but I feel so sad for her panic when she started changing.

How dare they do that to what is in essence a kid.

Good to see an end to Riful.

Jst a bit of a weird way I suppose.
Yeah it was good. I have to admit I liked the splash page with the single digit warriors, just seemed cool, even if they pretty much are nameless cannon fodder the this point.

Miata was cool and it's nice to see something done with her since she has pretty much been nonexistent since the start of the timeskip. Looking forward to see where this is headed.

My only complaint is that Pris has come out of this undamaged and yet again it just shows the gulf in power and see no reasonable way - at this point - how she will be beaten. There is one thing to have a powerful villain, but one that dwarfs everything by such a huge difference isn't very good.

 

[Anybody]

All I can say about this last year or so of this manga is a big resounding and resigned MEH.

How did such an awesome work go so generic and pointlessly drawn out?

 

[Norren]

Honestly, there'd really be nothing wrong with the current plot arc if it was weekly. There really isn't that much in the art that makes it stand out in a time consumed to produce sort of way, the series just got into an arc that's best told weekly. Also, the series is enjoyable, but never really was that spectacular in the first place, just different. Most of it's effectiveness came from the way all of it's secrets were kept, and we've had all those unveiled in just this last 6 months - we care more about what they are now, but only because they were kept so long. (a few of them should've just stayed unseen for effect - That whole "this is what our bodies look like" thing was great nightmare fuel up until it turned into meh-1940's-bride-of-frankenstein-is-worse.)

In keeping with the whole "weekly would be better" scheme of things, consider the whole Organization vs ZombieIchibans arc would've gone by in like, a month and a half. The arc is actually quite enjoyable if read in one sitting, and the whole "power of Nakama" ending to the Hyst fight was actually pretty neat. Then Roxanne bit it and we got this whole "Cassandra or Priscilla?" plot that ultimately had no purpose except to lead to Priscilla needing to externalize her claymore - another 4 month long development that again, we could've had in a month with weekly releases.

That said, I'm pretty much just waiting for the finale. We've got this whole "pride of the last" thing going on that pretty much screams "We're all going to die horribly".

On the downside... That finale will still take another two years.

On the upside, we'll still get to see it before the end of Bleach Filler.

 

[Anybody]

Claymore was great because of slower, but well paced mystery story with short-but-effective fights, good focus on character psychology and thousands of mysteries driving the plot.

Since then it has devolved into "OH MY GAWSH WHICH ONE WILL WIN?" crapfest that lasts for dozens of chapters, with nothing productive going in background - random enemies we never had any idea about get thrown at the characters and it feels like a generic run-of-the-mill shonen stuff, complete with side "OMG WHO WILL WIN???" commentary.

The story had so many interesting mysteries, so many ways to go, but they chose the most generic one possible(I think the jump the shark moment was when it was revealed that Miria survived for no reason). I'd rather they spent time doing a systematic "bring down the organization" plot and then deal with the idea of dragon-kin and the outside of the island, than this mindless bs. I'd say by this point Bleach is far superior to this, since, hey - at least Bleach still pays attention to its own mysteries and plot-set-ups

 

[TNT]

Anybody speaks wise words. It had a good plot and while I didn't mind Miria mysteriously surviving it has gone down hill fast (or as fast as this Manga can go anyway) from that point on. Doesn't negate the fact that I really liked the previous chapter.

Recent issues give me the feeling that the Mangaka doesn't want to write anymore. Instead he is just infodumping his way to the end while drawing out fights long enough for said infodumping to occur.

Priscilla is ridiculous.

@ Hiasubi Though the translation seemed mangled. Priscilla did remark she was in trouble against Rifull.

 

[Norren]

QUOTE (Anybody @ Jul 04 2013, 01:01 AM)Claymore was great because of slower, but well paced mystery story with short-but-effective fights, good focus on character psychology and thousands of mysteries driving the plot.
Yeah, it really started deviating from its roots midway through the Pieta arc, I think, and by the end of the "RPG xpac" arc that immediately followed the story was clearly not the same story. I kind of think Yagi wrote himself into a corner with that arc and realized he had to come up with something in a hurry and then just gave up and took his unfinished notes as is.

I've been meaning to sit down and re-read the entire series when the current arc finishes just to make sure I haven't forgotten something with how long the story flows. It's been so long that I really don't remember much but the outline of the earlier parts of the story, I remember things being subtler, but at the same time I don't really feel like the storytelling itself has changed, I think it's just the material and Yagi doesn't know how to end it.

I agree that the story would have been better done differently with more focus on the dragon-kin concept. My personal wishlist would have been instead of the whole random nonsense with the ghosts leaving the north and immediately running into Riful's mission of contrivance, if they'd had more opportunity to graze on the scenery in the central/southern lands, then the story been given a chance to flow more naturally into a longer term plot involving the mainland conflict instead of the Priscilla power-bloat fest we ended up with.

Aside - have you noticed how almost every new character has to be part of some sort of duo in a Helen and Deneve like fashion?

 

[TNT]

No, I didnt notice. Other than man woman/ girly girl and Miata/Clarice I didn't see any extra duos. Who die you see? Also technically Sophia and Noel were the beta couple.

I'd personally think they jumped the shark at the organisation.

It's ironic that Priscillais our and their problem.

 

[Norren]

True! I'd forgotten Sophia and Noel! Pity those two were redshirts.

As far as other new duos, we've got Anastasia and Nike (recall their introduction), the next generation twins, and Lars and Chronos. The entire backstory of Dusteater Cassy and Roxy of love and hate was that they were a false-duo, and I feel like they're foreshadowing turning Dietrich into one with Galatea.

And I think I'm overlooking a few, but that's just off the top of my head.

The organization was the full out sharkjump, but I still think things fell apart at Pieta. That's where everything went full shonen tropes.

 

[Hiasubi]

QUOTE (Norren @ Jul 09 2013, 08:24 PM) True! I'd forgotten Sophia and Noel! Pity those two were redshirts.

As far as other new duos, we've got Anastasia and Nike (recall their introduction), the next generation twins, and Lars and Chronos. The entire backstory of Dusteater Cassy and Roxy of love and hate was that they were a false-duo, and I feel like they're foreshadowing turning Dietrich into one with Galatea.

And I think I'm overlooking a few, but that's just off the top of my head.

The organization was the full out sharkjump, but I still think things fell apart at Pieta. That's where everything went full shonen tropes.
Nah for me it was at the Org.

After Pieta we still had mystery and possibilities for the story to head to. But at the Org we had Miria pretty much faking her death randomly, the release of Super big canon fodder with the former number 1s - though I did enjoy reading their back stories -, we had Miria finally get the proof this is island was just a staging conflict for a greater war on the main continent and we got... NOTHING. Heck no one has even mentioned it. They seemed to just go 'Oh some big looking things chained up, Oh well', and we now have nameless canon fodder spamming the pages after Mirias 'sacrifice'. Since the Org it's just gone no where and doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

The pacing of it has never been a problem for me, but now, I'm just stuck for ideas where they can take it now. Riful has gone now, which means they must fight Pris once spiral pointy thing is dead - which she will be in about 6 months -, if they don't then it will just be dragging the story for the sake of it - not to say it hasn't be doing that anyway -, they must fight her, before it was fine since Pris reverted to a baby with Isliley and they were doing other things but now she is practically next door in full view. The fight must happen and aside from Claires brief mentioned of ability gained from being absorbed the is no real way for them to win. Which means the fight will drag on. Plus it's not like Pris has a goal. She just exists.

So this brings me back to Pris, even when I was loving this Manga etc I still had a problem with Pris. She doesn't work. You can't have a story with the main villain is that powerful for no real reason than for the sake of it. It doesn't work. It's bad story telling in my opinion. Some of the best villain are good villains because they have a good back story or motivation, are dark reflections of the protagonist, well developed etc. Pris is none of that. She is strong first he sake of it, lacks any motivation, isn't developed and simply put just exists for story purposes. It would have been much better to have killed he off long ago so the story could have progress of this island or failing that just ended it.

 

[TNT]

QUOTE (Norren @ Jul 09 2013, 01:24 PM) True! I'd forgotten Sophia and Noel! Pity those two were redshirts.

As far as other new duos, we've got Anastasia and Nike (recall their introduction), the next generation twins, and Lars and Chronos. The entire backstory of Dusteater Cassy and Roxy of love and hate was that they were a false-duo, and I feel like they're foreshadowing turning Dietrich into one with Galatea.

And I think I'm overlooking a few, but that's just off the top of my head.

The organization was the full out sharkjump, but I still think things fell apart at Pieta. That's where everything went full shonen tropes.
You made me think.

There are a lot of duo's yes. Though I don't think you can classify Cassy and Roxy as a duo.
I suddenly remembered that there is actually an instory reason for the dou's. Ofcourse we haven't seen that reason in years.(And I don't expect it to show up again) The black card. The card they send to their best friend. The only ones that don't seem to be a duo are the number ones. (Teresa, Isley, Luciela, Hysteria exception on the twins who also have a good reason)


Like Hiasubi I also enjoyed the backstories for Cassy, Roxy and even Hysteria. So I didn't mind. I even enjoyed the fight between Myria and Hysteria. Seeing someone with virtually the same special move is interesting.

I always see a lot of comments about wanting to go to the mainland. Let me ask you this, why? What are they going to do on the mainland? Solve a war that's been going on for centuries? (Or was it decades? Anyway a bloody long time.) They have no stake there and no reason to go there.
As curious as I am to what's going on on the mainland actually going there is a bad idea.
This series just needs to end.

 

[Hiasubi]

QUOTE I always see a lot of comments about wanting to go to the mainland. Let me ask you this, why? What are they going to do on the mainland? Solve a war that's been going on for centuries? (Or was it decades? Anyway a bloody long time.) They have no stake there and no reason to go there.
As curious as I am to what's going on on the mainland actually going there is a bad idea.
This series just needs to end.

Yes, with what it's got the series does need to end. However, regarding your question about the mainland, why I want to see it is simple. It opens the story up, it opens the world up. It adds some of that mystery that Al of you have said you originally liked but is now gone. Since bear in mind this island was for all intensive purposes a testing ground no? So that beds the question, what made it off the testing ground? What exactly would they be facing. Also regarding no reason to go to the mainland? I see reason, they want to stop the Org? Well it was my understanding the Org set up shop on the island because of the conflict on the mainland so just because the Org on the Island is gone, presumably the Org would still exist, since if it was a training ground/experimental site, then there are people on the mainland who want the results of the testing etc., plus it is my understanding the Org are loosing the war on the mainland, so then we can go to who it is they are fighting, why they are fighting, if the Org are actual the bad guys in all of this. Like I said it opens the story up. Also it would give a break from slash page after slash page.

 

[Norren]

TNT - I chose the words "False duo" carefully. The black card point does actually make the tendency to pair up seem more logical, too. Kind of an interesting, close, if macabre sort of detail.

Hia - I want to see more done with the mainland, but not necessarily moving the story to it. The only way the story can actually move to the mainland is, well, if Pris goes there.

It's sort of a pity they didn't keep the "She's a victim, too" concept as Pris' main story. It would be an entirely different story if Pris had just stayed the amnesiac monster girl. No going back now, tho'.

Really, the mainland could provide more mystery and answers without actually going there - possibly an expeditionary force from there (by either faction or the many subfactions alluded to by Miria.). Possibly have some first gen or pre-first gen male warriors show up, or something.