Christmas


Ad: Buy Girls Und Panzer Merch from Play Asia!
Accurate or no Christmas is supposed to honour the birth of Jesus Christ. So to celebrate Christmas (properly) one needs to believe in Jesus. They also need to believe in the miracle of his birth. The whole Virgin Mary birth which signifies that Jesus is the son of God (he was born without sin). So the fundamental reason behind Christmas is very Christian. Off course many of the traditions surrounding Christmas are not Christian as you stated, very well I may add.

I still think it is important people don't forget the reason behind Christmas (I'm not even Christian!) It would be a great shame if Christmas turns into a winter celebration (it's getting there). If that happened it will be clear proof that people have truly forgotten the meaning behind Christmas.

I believe the practice of putting up Christmas trees became fashionable in England around the 18th century. This was because King George III's wife was German; she introduced the idea of putting up Christmas trees. Naturally since the monarch did it everyone else eventually followed.

As for Santa Claus, I guess in today's society he pretty much symbolises the commercialised side of Christmas. I have even heard stories that his red coat was the idea of Coca-Cola. Still Santa Claus is supposed to be based on Saint Nicolas; a saint who secretly gave presents. So there is some Christian connection with Santa, albeit a rather loose one. Despite this connection I can see why there can be some friction with the Santa figure, he distracts people from the true meaning of Christmas.
 
QUOTE (monsta666 @ Dec 12 2008, 06:20 PM) Accurate or no Christmas is supposed to honour the birth of Jesus Christ.
Christmas is now a cultural thing, more than just a religious day.

I'm not trying to belittle the importance of this day for Christians, but nowadays (at least here, it may vary in other places) a lot of people give gifts, eat well, but don't go to the Midnight Mass.
It's just a fact.
You can lament that people have lost the good ol' values (and you may be right) of Christmas or Halloween, but it won't change the fact that it has happened.

Anyway, I've never truly understand the whole debate about Christmas. It's a christian celebration for Christians, it's not for non-Christians. Until someone decide to register a patent on a day of the year, that's the end of the story.
 
Almost every part of christmas came from some other religion and had been part of other religious practices and myths before christianity. Even the three wise men refers to when a constellation arises. The catholic church even moved Jesus' birthday to be on December 25 to take advantage of holiday practices there. People didn't argue about it. Until the last century, you could loose your fingernails or have your eyes and tongue burned out for speaking out about church lies. In many areas around the world, you still can be tortured, mamed, or killed for improper religious views. The last thing christmas is is christian.

http://www.mrrena.com/2001/Christmas.shtml

http://european-indigenous-peoples.suite10...ristmas_origins
 
@ monsta: but that's just it, there is nothing about christmas that IS christian. The catholic church is/(was?) notorius for absorbing traditions of other cultures/religions in order to make it easier for them to convert. What we now call chistmas, as well as easter are the epiphanies of this. These holidays have simply been renamed, and those names used by the culture at large for the holiday. So what's easter all about? well, it's ressurection to some extent. though that resurrection is actually about nature in general, and the whole rabbits/eggs is blatantly represenative of sex. as I said before, we may have adopted the christian name for it, but the holiday is anything but.

As for Old Sain't Nick, his origins lay with Odin. That's right, bad-ass Odin who rides around on his eight legged horse hunting on christmas eve. and if you're good little boy/girl and leave food for the horse in your shoes, Odin will leave you some candy/presents.

Odin=Santa ---->Awesome
 
QUOTE (mamori @ Dec 13 2008, 02:30 AM) As for Old Sain't Nick, his origins lay with Odin. That's right, bad-ass Odin who rides around on his eight legged horse hunting on christmas eve. and if you're good little boy/girl and leave food for the horse in your shoes, Odin will leave you some candy/presents.
...and if you're bad, you get a Zantetsuken to the face? lol

but yes, I agree. Strict Christians look at Christmas as a time to observe the birth of their savior (plus all that holiday shtuff). Everyone else looks at it as a time to get together with friends/family, share gifts, celebrate for the sake of celebrating, relax, whatever. You absolutely do NOT need to be christian to celebrate Christmas, just like you don't need to be a tree to celebrate earth day, or a pilgrim to celebrate thanksgiving. NOBODY has a monopoly on Christmas (...except maybe the corporate world
tongue.gif
) There is no "proper" way of celebrating it.
 
St Nick has more than one origin mammori my friend. The modern image of the person we know is based on a Turkish saint who would visit children around the yuletide period.
As for mythical hunting figures even the celts had one, the celtix hunter was rather more dark then our friend Odin though. The celtic hunter was known as the Master of the Hunt and would ride across britain literally hunting evil with a pack of hounds, the problem being that even if you were a good person if you were found by him being good might not necessarily ensure your safety.
But I digress, as we all know Christmas was not actually orginally the date we celebrate it on, that was actually changed by the Romans who changed the date to coincide with the celebration of a Solinari, the day when the Sun returns to the world from the Land of the Dead. I agree with Egg-beast that nobody can monopolise Christmas although the corporate world does seem to do a good job of it.
Early Brits originally celebrated the day as the end of the winter period.
It's always worth while to remember where our traditions come from
smile.gif
if we don't know who we were how can we be sure who we are?
Festive greetings and blessings to you all by the way
biggrin.gif
 
QUOTE (mamori @ Dec 13 2008, 08:30 AM) @ monsta: but that's just it, there is nothing about christmas that IS christian.
But it's a very important reason. Something that is difficult to ignore. Perhaps in recent years the birth of Christ has been forgotten somewhat but it is still there. It's what separates from the previous end of year celebrations that occured before Christmas.

It's also the main (and only) reason why many non-Christians do not celebrate Christmas as they do not believe in Jesus. I guess if this element was removed it would truly be a event that everyone could celebrate (much like New Year).

Christmas is an event that is most prominent in the Western countries where the main religion is Christianity. Go to countries where the main religion isn't Christianity and you will find Christmas is hardly celebrated (if at all). The last view years I have spent Christmas in Egypt or Sudan and Christmas is simply just another day. Yet New Year is heavily celebrated. So I don't think it is completely true to say Christmas is for everyone.

Saying that, it is true that Christmas has become more of a cultural event than a religious one. In Britain hardly anyone observes the mass and just sees Christmas as a time to meet friends and family... Or get drunk!
tongue.gif
Still, in most cases most of the people who do this are either Christian or atheists (at least they claim to be most of the year). People of other religions do not follow the traditions of Christmas such as collecting Christmas trees, presents etc...
 
I just remembered something about a certain VERY popular Christmas tradition Monsta. Did you know that the tradition of giving presents around the the Christmas time part of the year actually originated in ancient Egypt long before the birth of Christ.ie. Long before the birth of Jesus of Nazareth there existed the tradition of exchanging presents at the end of the year.
By the way I find it sort of part-confusing/part-ironic that people expect Christmas to be December 25th, even devout Christians. In truth I don;t recall seeing ANYWHERE in the Bible where it actually describes what day let alone month Jesus was born on. True it may very well have been in December according to historians but historians have been known to make mistakes and also I'm fairly certain the a census of individuals can be done at ANY time of the year.
Anyway I've decided that as I can;t actually think of an idea for something my mother would actually like to receive that I will do something that actually requires some serious thought and meaning. I am going to create a poem especially for my mother, it may not be as good as anything I see on the Creative Writing forum or even my best work but I will have put serious thought and effort into it.
 
QUOTE (mamori @ Dec 21 2006, 01:53 PM) judging by all accounts of the event, Jesus was actually born in the summer :roll:. christmas is celebrated when it is because as previously stated, the pagans had a huge celebration around that time too (winter solstice anyone?), and were sorta feeding off of that.


so yeah, next time you see a sign or hear someone say "Jesus is the reason for the season," inform them that they are two seasons off
wink.gif
.

also note that the 'star' was very likely jupiter and i think venus crossing paths.
wink.gif


even just last week there was a rare event where venus and jupiter and the moon were all making a nice small triangle in the sky.
 
Also mamori, interestingly you'll find that most historians will agree that in all likelyhood the "3 Kings" as they're described by most school were originally known as "£ wise man" and at that time those 3 men were in most likely to be Persian astrologers.
Hang on a second? Persian? That's definitely not Jewish or even hebrew and Astrology? That's no exactly holy is it? Not according to what most of the rest of Christianity think lol.
 
Gustav, they may have been Persian astrologers but they were still well versed in the Old Testament, otherwise they would have never known of the prophecy of Christ's birth in Bethlehem.

As for me... my church has the general believe that Christmas is the day to celebrate not only the miraculous birth of Christ, but also his life and all he accomplished, ending it all with an Infinite Atonement for all of us. So we comemorate all that the Savior did for us.

That's just me though. I don't wish to push my beliefs onto anyone else, but in this manner it wouldn't really matter when Christ was born, since it's a celebration of all that He did.
 
QUOTE
Christmas is an event that is most prominent in the Western countries where the main religion is Christianity. Go to countries where the main religion isn't Christianity and you will find Christmas is hardly celebrated (if at all). The last view years I have spent Christmas in Egypt or Sudan and Christmas is simply just another day. Yet New Year is heavily celebrated. So I don't think it is completely true to say Christmas is for everyone.

That's why I said Christmas was a cultural thing, not a religious one.

I know almost no one who doesn't celebrate Christmas. The only who don't are people without children (for obvious reasons) and people with foreign roots (mainly muslims I'd say. Maybe some jews too, but I've a less direct knowledge. Therefore people with a slightly different culture).
Among the "native" agnostics and atheists I know, everybody celebrate Christmas.

I think the best way to put it is that there's two christmas.
The religious Christmas, celebrating the birth of Jesus, and the cultural Christmas, with gifts, oysters, foie gras etc. And it's very close to what happens in reality.

The whole thing about the origins of Christmas, the symbols and all that stuff...
I fell it's often a cheap way to argue for or against Christmas.
Who cares if the 25th of december was or wasn't already a holy day 2000 years ago, in another religion ? Historians, yeah. But it's pretty much irrelevant with what's happening now.
 
I disagree that the holidays which were already celebrated at this time are irrelevant today, because all of them are celebrating the return of the Sun, or the "Sun-god" to the world. The days after the Solstice get longer again until the summer solstice, when they again get shorter of course. This has meaning for everyone, because despite the technological changes in society, a person's body still responds to this the same. Seasonal effective disorder is just an extreme case of the effect of shortened days/bad weather on the human body. I know I feel more awake and mentally ready for the day when I get up and it is light outside.

The other holidays that happened around this time are celebrating the idea that winter is half-way done, and that spring is coming. I think it is pretty common to want spring to come, I know it is for me.

The fact that people celebrated the Solstices and the changing of the seasons in the past is certainly relevant today, when people still celebrate that very thing, though some less formally than in the past.

That's the thing about pagan holidays, you take out the references to gods and goddesses, and they are basically celebrating nature and being alive. I don't really feel the same way about Christian holidays, but I suppose someone could make a case for that.

Christmas to me was never very much about Christ. As a child, it was about presents I was going to get. Now it is about seeing people I love and giving presents to them, and seeing how excited they get. I was raised Christian and we went to church and all that, but for me it was never the right fit.

I am not a Christian now, but I still celebrate Christmas with my family. If I didn't have people who want me to celebrate it with them, I wouldn't. I do celebrate Yule though. Yay for the days getting longer and spring being closer!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Playasia - Play-Asia.com: Online Shopping for Digital Codes, Video Games, Toys, Music, Electronics & more
Back
Top