Anti-Depressants

What are your opinions about Anti-depressant drugs?

  • It is a drug, therefore using it is wrong.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It is helpful.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • There are pros and cons to this subject.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Playasia - Play-Asia.com: Online Shopping for Digital Codes, Video Games, Toys, Music, Electronics & more

Vith

-chan
Kouhai
As many have said, there are good and bad attempts at using anti-depressants. They actually affect which neurotransmitters get accepted in-between nervous cells (which in turn alters your mood)... and the effects vary from person to person. So anti-depressants really do help some people, others they dont do anything, and others they make it worse.

Best approach is to not be on any meds, but if they are needed then they honestly shouldn't make it any worse, heck lots of people they make a whole lot better. If they do make you feel worse, then the psychiatrist should obviously take you off the meds immediately and they are not doing a good job if they dont.

The purpose of the anti-depression meds is to get an individual through a rough time in their life when they are dealing with a depression. They are not supposed to be used long term, that is when side effects start causing problems. Honestly, if you can figure out the chemical makeup of a drug that has no side effects on the human body then you win the prize, because that is what every drug company is searching for. If you want to judge them for the side effects their drugs cause, then go look at some organic chemistry and see how hard it is for them to make these drugs. Of course, they also do a massive amount of FDA testing before they send these drugs out.
 

Yuki Shiido

-chan
Kouhai
Neuro-transmitters, THAT was what I was trying to think of!

I know it's slightly off-topic, but drug commercials.... aren't the side effects usually what the drug is supposed to get rid of? That means... it doesn't work...

On topic: Well, I should think it'd take a while to get the neuro-transmitters all balanced and not depressed and such... so not necessarily your whole life, but for a while, I think. I dunno.
 

DK3

New Member
Kouhai
There are many different classes of anti-depressants out there. From the now-discontinued MonoAmine Oxidase inhibitors (MAOi s) to the older TriCyclic Antidepressants (TCAs), to the Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) like Prozac and to the newest classes like the Serotonin Noradrenergic Reuptake Inhibitors and NaSSas.

The reason why newer antidepressants continue to be researched and marketed is because:

1) A large number of people actually have depression, up to 1% by WHO estimates.

2) The newer ones generally have less side-effects compared to the older generation.

Psychiatry has always been viewed as the blunt edge of medical science. That is partially true. Because psychiatry is not black and white like what people like to believe, it's a whole load of grey.

Someone on this thread once said that "You are either crazy or you're not, you can't be a little crazy." That's false. There's an entire spectrum for psychiatric diseases just like many other diseases. You can be sick and dying lying there in the ICU with tubes sticking into your every orifice or you can be down with a cold resting at home. Just as there's a spectrum for disease, the same exists for psychiatric conditions.

Depression alone is already a huge topic in itself. There's a whole big spectrum to depression as well. I'm sure most of us here have gotten depressed at some point in our lives, like when we broke up with our first love, when our pet for 15 years died, or the demise of a close loved one. But does that constitute a mental illness? No, because it:

1) Doesn't last long enough to qualify for Depressive Disorder

2) Doesn't affect our daily functioning, not by much anyway.

So do ALL of us need antidepressants? The answer to that is no.

But why has there been so much controversy over this drug? It helped save lives. Of course, different people react differently to it. I've seen some seriously suicidal people perk up in 2-3 weeks after taking Prozac and getting on with life and I've seen some who don't respond to Prozac and rely on Electro-Convulsive Therapy to control their depression.

It's been associated with an increase in suicidal ideation in depressed adolescents on the medication (in Prozac's case). But seriously, if you look at it in a different light, would those people have committed suicide if they weren't on the drug? Hell yes, for most of them. Did the drug reduce the number of those committing suicide? Hell yes.

Conspiracy theories about how GlaxoSmithKline knew about the side-effect but marketed it anyway for profit are just plain dumb. If I were the president of a drug company, that's the last thing I'd want to do simply because the repercussions (both financial and press-wise) are too great. Just look at the Vioxx and the Bjork-Shelley cases and you'll know what I mean.

By the way, Bjork-Shelley is bankrupt now. They manufactured heart valves in the past, which were subsequently found, many years after FDA approval, to have a mechanical fault which results in valve fracture and certain death for the patient. They paid billions for those still alive to replace their valves and billions more to the families of the deceased. Lesson? There are no conspiracy theories in this cut-throat litigatious society.
 

Cloak

-chi
Kouhai
Pumping some ones body full of drugs is not going to give them direction, meaning in life and sense that they are a success as a human being accomplishing there purpose in there generation thereby curing there depression.

It's a freakin chemical band aid for a chronic and in my humble opinion purely Psychological problem.
 

TheGuardian

-chi
Kouhai
a great many of my family have killed themselves
and NONE of those took anti-depressants. the ones who made it through manic-depression had help from modern medicine (including my dad).
and you know what? when im older im probably going to struggle with it. and i might need it.
If it can stop all the deaths in my family.... then im for it with all my heart.
 

Patrick5087

-san
Kouhai
well in the cases where its scicidal I really don't have a problem with it, i may have some questions when it comes to other cases but, maybe what should be prescribed more is maybe a change in diet. you know try to cut down on things that have artificial preservatives in it.

Just a thought anyway.
 

snorky2k

-san
Kouhai
When prescribed by a careful and well trained doctor, I see no problem with anti-depress drugs. I've seen people off of them try to take their kids with them during suicide. In many cases where the drugs fail, the doctor is too apathetic and prescribes just the drugs and not a whole treatment program.

Also, in small doses, the same drugs can be used to stop twitches and involuntary muscle spasms.
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Kouhai
QUOTE (Cloak @ Apr 29 2008, 08:40 PM)Pumping some ones body full of drugs is not going to give them direction, meaning in life and sense that they are a success as a human being accomplishing there purpose in there generation thereby curing there depression.
I wouldn't be so sure Cloak. Speaking to a mate who's a doctor they said they've seen patients who are severely depressed make a remarkable recovery after taking some anti-depressants. So there can be benefits to taking these drugs. The main problem (I heard) is that many patients go off the drug as soon as they see improvement. This creates its own problems. Usually a person needs to stay on the drugs for a set amount time and is then gradually weaned of the drugs. Taking them off suddenly can be harmful.

Another problem (that is well documented) is when doctors prescribe anti-depressants meant for adults to children. The side effects can be unpredictable and you hear a lot of stories about children turning suicidal after taking these drugs. I think it is important that anti-depressants form part a patient's treatment and they also have some other help. Drugs taken on their own may not be the best long term solution but are definitely a good short term solution.
 

TheGuardian

-chi
Kouhai
Well deprersion is a serious problem. and it IS hereditary, and it IS a disease. they aren't just giving these things away.
i mean, no one suicidal till they are, right? and by thenn it might be too late. that's why if you go to see a psychiatrist they'll ask you right away, "are you depressed".

thats why depression and things like "the weepies" are two differenty things:

depression is an early stage of more serious mental issues. (which might involve institutions, 24-hour observance, etc.)

Weepies is when you're sad that the colts beat the bears.

before medicine came along, when it came to depression, it was like fighting a tidal wave with a paddle.

and the drugs dont "force" you to be anything. people with depression have a hard time finding their "trigger" out of depression (jokes, love, etc.) the medicine makes the trigger much more obtainable. that's not to say these people dont struggle every day of their lives with depression.
 

shirin023

New Member
Kouhai
Neuroscience and psychology are not an exact science. I agree with the previous poster who claimed that they are fields of grey; unlike the physical sciences, moral and practical issues prevent methodological research and use of the scientific method. "How do you really tell what a person is thinking; is the color blue actually "blue" for all people?" You cannot simply force a person to accurately describe the mental processes occurring within them. A common analogy used in many intropsych courses is: the mind is like a black box, you can see what goes in (environment, social interaction, etc.) and you can see what comes out (resulting behaviour), but what happens in the black box is unknown; at least where empirical evidence is concerned, and behaviourists would strongly agree.

There are many proponents of various theories when it comes to psychological disorders, one of which is the biological approach, which assumes that disorders are caused by chemical imbalances within the body, hence, the use of drugs. Other theories focus more on correcting behaviour through use of classical and operant conditioning. There is also the psychoanalytic approach, often depicted in television, with the patient lying on a chair talking to a psychiatrist.

The point is, there are many theories and approaches to treatment of depression, drugs are used because they are effective. In this case, I would describe effective as having the capacity to create positive results. They do not work for everybody, but they do work for many, and often medication is used with a combination of other treatments.

@cloak
And what is a "purely psychological" problem? What prevents, treating a psychological problem through chemical means? Why not use all methods at one's disposal including more "psychological" approaches and medication? I realize that post was over 2 months old, just throwing out questions for consideration.
 

koiji

-san
Kouhai
To be honest, I'm completely against taking antidepressants..
I used to take them back when I was depressed, and although they helped for a little while.. I came to realize that they no longer had any affect on me and they ended up causing more trouble than they were worth... Besides, the costs here outweighs the benefits.
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
QUOTE (koiji @ Nov 17 2009, 05:58 PM)To be honest, I'm completely against taking antidepressants..
I used to take them back when I was depressed, and although they helped for a little while.. I came to realize that they no longer had any affect on me and they ended up causing more trouble than they were worth... Besides, the costs here outweighs the benefits.
YES! I definitely agree. I'm not pretending that I know for a fact that antidepressants are a bad choice for everybody, but the rates at which they are abused are getting ridiculous. The state I live in actually has, by a wide margin, the highest consumption of antidepressants in the United States (and probably the entire world, for that matter). Of course, the reason behind that is that the state I live in has the highest density of Mormon followers, but that's kind of another story.


At any rate, antidepressants really mess a people up, especially if their "depressive symptoms" are completely natural (i.e. not caused by some kind of mental defect). It's ridiculous for these kinds of people to expect their problems to be solved by popping a few pills, and it's downright wrong for doctors to cave in and prescribe anti-depressants to their patients as an "easy way out".

Staying active and eating foods that AREN'T made from petro-chemical plants are by far better ways of relieving depression than pill-popping could ever be.

By the way, have any of you heard of ABILIFY? Basically, you take it ALONG with another anti-depressant, for double the depression-fighting power! Good lord! It's just like sprinkling angel dust on your crack , except legal! (not sure if naming drugs is smiled upon in FTV...)
 

koiji

-san
Kouhai
Finally! Someone who agrees with me!
I mean, I understand that all drugs have side effects.. but whats the point of taking an antidepressant if theres a good chance that it'll make you feel worse! "___ may increase thoughts of suicide in..." I mean.. c'mon! I can guarantee that most people whose depression symptoms worsen, or who begin to have constant thoughts of suicide aren't going to ask the doctor for some different colored pills because the ones they have" taste funny". I mean it's hard enough for people with depression or who attempt suicide, to reach out and ask for help.. and if they start feeling worse cause the happy pills suck ass , then what in the bloody hell is the point in taking them?!...

And yeah, I have heard of Abilify, aripiprazole. Those pharmacy technician can really come in handy
. Antidepressants are just ridiculous.. and they SERIOUSLY fuck you up! I have a friend who is in love with medication.. her solution to every problem is: talk to your doctor.. and get on some antidepressants.. and live a long happy life..
HAHA.. long and happy my ass


Hehe, I went a bit spoiler crazy... XD
 

b.o.w

-san
Kouhai
well i know what's like to come from a family with mental disorders; form my mom's side about 50% suffer of some mild episodes of histeria and paranoia... wouldn't you know it that is the side that took dominance for me... nonetheless I think everybody passes through a period where they embrace the darkness and you just feel so down that it blurs everything... it's natural selection, either you come clean after sliding through a tunel of crap (shawshank redemption reference FTW) or you get stuck there and never get out.

first some background.... age 8 i quit coffee cold turkey, because I was depending heavily on it to get started (is common for youngsters and even toddlers to drink coffee black in my country... heck we get it in our baby bottles), to me it just made no sense for ME to depend on anything to get things done... plus someone told me it could stun my growth...


from 14 to probably 22 the lines of reality and fiction were really blur for me, but i refused any kind of medication, my shrink wanted to put me on group therapy which i cartegorically refused, i was able to function semi normally except that i never had many lasting friendship or meaningfull relationships... funny thing i regret nothing and the very few pals that stuck with me i trully [snip]consider my friends[/snip] (scratch that i consider them my true kin)

at one point i said to myself "is time to nut up or shut up" (not in those words mind you) and went back to college started a relationship with whom is now my wife and i left the darkness just like that, to never return. Of course i fell down sometimes, i just don't indulge in letting things get out of hand

depresion, paranoia, delusions are not that different from coffee and cigarrettes you can quit them cold turkey; that is if you have the balls to back it up.
i agree heartilly withNTT P702iF QUOTE My advice to all:
Don't completely trust doctors or psychiatrists (After my experience I trust them very little).
there are some really good doctors out there, people that trully take an interest in the well being of the people they come across but (little did we wanted to know) the great mayority of medics out there became doctors because they used to see general hospital, dougie houser, house, or ER or even worst they became doctors because their parents set the way, paid for the carrer or even more morronic reasons ... All these psicological diseases are quite new; you didn't hear about them 20 years ago... has our way of life realy changed so much? or have farmaceutical companies grown somuch they have to maufacture new illnesses to keep their growth expectations and the stockholders happy? what do you think is more likelly?

TL/DR: about 90% (completely made up number is probably higher)of mental diseases can be cured with a slap in the butt and a job that demands the best of you

this is my opinion and as such you can comment on it but don't expect me to change it anytime soon...
 

koiji

-san
Kouhai
First, I give you praise for the longest post this topic has seen in a while.


Now, it kinda seems to me like your opinion lies somewhere between and and eggs, and the other siders.. Although, I think its leaning more towards "our" side.


QUOTE (b.o.w @ Nov 17 2009, 11:55 PM)
depresion, paranoia, delusions are not that different from coffee and cigarrettes you can quit them cold turkey; that is if you have the balls to back it up.


Now I'm sorry, but I don't entirely agree with this.. it takes more than.. I'll clean it up a bit and say, sheer will power, to come out of depression. Trust me, I know.. Now, of course, you have to try... because nothing is ever going to happen on it own, but the will to just see the brighter side of everything, surely isn't enough. I was in the dark for quite some time.. and I think it's completely changed my life.. and to be honest I have become more cynical and misanthropic as a result, and I highly doubt that's going to change any time soon.
So, a quick summary: "Balls", just dont do the trick.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE nonetheless I think everybody passes through a period where they embrace the darkness and you just feel so down that it blurs everything... it's natural selection, either you come clean after sliding through a tunel of crap (shawshank redemption reference FTW) or you get stuck there and never get out.


Totally agree ! It's just like the flu, cancer or a car crash ; natural selection.
We shouldn't help you, just be strong enough to overcome the disease or die and rot on the side of the road.

Nothing can go wrong with that kind of philosophy, I'm sure.




Mental diseases are diseases.
You can overcome some of them with time and your natural strenght, just like you can overcome a flu without any medication. It doesn't make the medication less useful.
Of course, there's some abuses (just like any other kind of medication : look at how many people ask for antibiotics for a virus-based infection), but that doesn't make the medication less useful.



QUOTE at one point i said to myself "is time to nut up or shut up" (not in those words mind you) and went back to college started a relationship with whom is now my wife and i left the darkness just like that, to never return. Of course i fell down sometimes, i just don't indulge in letting things get out of hand

When I was young, I broke my wrist. Didn't go to the doctor. It healed perfectly well.
It could have healed the wrong way. It could have not really heal at all (if the break was more serious).
If I had gone to the doctor, it could have healed in a faster and more secured way.

So you see...
Sometimes you can overcome a medical problem with pure will and time (by the way, having time is a privilege of youth. When you have kids, you don't say "well, let's wait a few years, I'll be better", because your kids need your now).
Sometimes you can, but it's much more difficult.
Sometimes you can't.

Besides, saying that people with mental disease just just stop being ill, it's just like saying that unemployed people should just get a job. Or that people starving to death should just eat more.

QUOTE
All these psicological diseases are quite new; you didn't hear about them 20 years ago... has our way of life realy changed so much? or have farmaceutical companies grown somuch they have to maufacture new illnesses to keep their growth expectations and the stockholders happy? what do you think is more likelly?

Because we care more now than 20 years ago.
It's just like you didn't hear gay people complaining so much 50 years ago (or black people in the US). It wasn't because there was no problem, but because very few were listening.



QUOTE TL/DR: about 90% (completely made up number is probably higher)of mental diseases can be cured with a slap in the butt and a job that demands the best of you


90% of statistics are crap.
 

koiji

-san
Kouhai
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Nov 18 2009, 07:44 AM)
Totally agree ! It's just like the flu, cancer or a car crash ; natural selection.
We shouldn't help you, just be strong enough to overcome the disease or die and rot on the side of the road.

Nothing can go wrong with that kind of philosophy, I'm sure.

Well, I wouldnt say exactly that. I mean I honestly don't believe its just by the luck of the draw; there are many factors that cause depression (but lets not discuss that here, for Dalriada my friend, we can always venture back into the suicide/depression threads
).

And of.. beautiful philosophy.



QUOTE (Dalriada @ Nov 18 2009, 07:44 AM)
Mental diseases are diseases.
You can overcome some of them with time and your natural strenght, just like you can overcome a flu without any medication. It doesn't make the medication less useful.
Of course, there's some abuses (just like any other kind of medication : look at how many people ask for antibiotics for a virus-based infection), but that doesn't make the medication less useful.

Actually.. if I remember correctly from my Pharmacy Tech studies, and my Health Science studies, the only way to overcome the flu.. is on its own... You can take various OTC medications to help with some of the symptoms, but in truth your body must fight it on its own.

But yeah, people do tend to abuse drugs alot. But once again, if you'd like to delve further into that, we can rush back over to the drug abuse thread.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE
Well, I wouldnt say exactly that. I mean I honestly don't believe its just by the luck of the draw; there are many factors that cause depression (but lets not discuss that here, for Dalriada my friend, we can always venture back into the suicide/depression threads
).

I do not question the various factors cuasing depression or other mental diseases.
I'm just stating that they are diseases, so they should be treated as such, which is relevant to the topic of the thread, the utility of anti-depressants.


QUOTE
Actually.. if I remember correctly from my Pharmacy Tech studies, and my Health Science studies, the only way to overcome the flu.. is on its own... You can take various OTC medications to help with some of the symptoms, but in truth your body must fight it on its own.

You're very probably right (maybe the tamiflu does ?)
However, people still use medication to help with the symptoms of the flu.
Just like I see nothing wrong with people using drugs (without abusing it and with the supervision of a qualified doctor) to help with the symptoms of a depression.
 
Top