Anime Debate

Hiroyuki

-sama
Retired
Re getting Battle Royale, this was shown on TV where I am so I just taped it off air!

This brings me to the main issue I have with the cost of anime: basically we're mostly watching TV series, and when you work it out from your monthy subscription or TV licence (or whatever the costs of wathcing TV are where you live), the normal cost of watching a TV programme is just pennies per episode.

So it's a real pain to have to shell out pounds or dollars per episode with DVDs, you literally end up paying 100 times more to watch anime than regular TV shows. Unless they stick a whole series on a single DVD in Xvid format and sell it for £1.99 then watching anime is always going to be an expensive hobby compared to normal TV viewing.

The real anwser is that western broadcasters need to stick their hands in their pockets and shell out for more foreign language stuff like anime, it's not like there isn't plenty of room in the tv schedules when you look at the endless repeats being shown.

In the absence of a good selection of anime being broadcast so it's accessible at regular TV viewing prices, it's inevitable that most people will go for free downloads and only shell out for DVDs for things that are really special, just like with regular TV series, some people will still buy the DVDs despite seeing it on TV, because they want to own that series, or want the superior quality or extras, but most people will simply tape it off TV for free if they want a copy to keep.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE
This brings me to the main issue I have with the cost of anime: basically we're mostly watching TV series, and when you work it out from your monthy subscription or TV licence (or whatever the costs of wathcing TV are where you live), the normal cost of watching a TV programme is just pennies per episode.

-Only if you watch the subscribed channel 24/7.
-The channel has far more suscribers than a DVD box has buyers.
-There's ads on TV (and yes, it brings a lot of money.
-Anyway, the price of an object or of a service is not based on its cost (or only marginally).


QUOTE
The real anwser is that western broadcasters need to stick their hands in their pockets and shell out for more foreign language stuff like anime, it's not like there isn't plenty of room in the tv schedules when you look at the endless repeats being shown.

You're missing the point.
Shows are not being repeated because there's time to kill. But because they are cheap, since the channel already paid for them (It's not really free, but it's far far less expensive than buying a whole new show).
 

snorky2k

-san
Kouhai
I purchased anime DVD's for the kids while I was working at my last job. But, this year my salary is $10,000 US dollars less a month than last year. We had extra money so we bought the DVD's to show support for good shows. This year we barely have enough money for internet service. Although I've come to hate dubs and prefer subs, I would be buying DVD's if I had a good job again. I feel that the economy is going to be a bigger thorn in anime as more people are hurt by the cost of funding these unnecessary wars.
 

Megiddo

-dono
Retired
QUOTE (snorky2k @ Oct 05 2008, 01:58 PM) But, this year my salary is $10,000 US dollars less a month than last year.
I can only think you had a currency conversion error, as a US$120,000 salary cut for the year is insane.

As a poor college student, I only earn around US$600 a month =\
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Staff member
Fansub TV Team
QUOTE (Hiasubi @ Oct 01 2008, 11:36 AM)In England the only British channels that show anime are:

Anime Centeral: Only shows anime from 9pm till 5am, but it only shows Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell, it did show Bleach instead of CB, but ince it stopped airing in the US and was replaced with DN its hasnt been seen over here since.

Jetix: Shows Naruto but only as far as season 4, it occasionaly shows Shaman King

Cartoon Network 2: Shows endless repeats of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl.

So unless we are on Virgin instead of Sky, in |England our anime veiwing is VERY limited.
Excluding anime centrals which shows constant repeats* nothing has changed. Replace Naruto with DragonballZ and you have the anime schedule for 1998!
laugh.gif
It's a significant problem for many countries and stops the anime industry from growing. One of the biggest problems is there are large barriers for anime series. TV networks have to pay a large fee to broadcast an anime series, with a limited fanbase this investment is risky at the best of times. The same could apply to DVD's and licenses.

It will be interesting to compare the effect of fansubs between countries with higher anime coverage (say Japan and USA) and countries with less anime coverage (the UK). Is fansubs only detrimental to certain countries or is there a universal trend?

*= By constant repeats imagine one channel showing the same three anime series for 10 months (no joke). Even I grow tired of it's constant showing of Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell!
laugh.gif


QUOTE (Dalriada @ Oct 05 2008, 08:39 PM)-Anyway, the price of an object or of a service is not based on its cost (or only marginally).
The cost of an object plays a big part in its price. If a show is expensive to produce the cost will be passed to the TV network (usually through a licence fee). As a result the program will need to generate more revenue (usually through advertisements). This means there is more pressure for such shows to maintain a high TV rating. It also means the program is more risky.

Why are cheap shows which generate high viewing figures (reality programs) much more favoured than more expensive shows with similar ratings (sports events)? At least that's the case in Britain as the BBC seems unwilling to broadcast any sports events, going for the cheaper option i.e Strictly come dancing...
dry.gif


TV networks will always consider the TV ratings and cost of the show before broadcasting as they will aim to maximise their profit margins.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE
The cost of an object plays a big part in its price. If a show is expensive to produce the cost will be passed to the TV network (usually through a licence fee). As a result the program will need to generate more revenue (usually through advertisements). This means there is more pressure for such shows to maintain a high TV rating. It also means the program is more risky.

I meant for the final user.
Take two Hollywood blockbusters. A action movie, very expensive with a lot of special effects, and a love comedy.
You'll pay the same price in a theater, you'll pay the same price for the DVD.

Of course, I'm exaggerating a lot. But the idea that you pay a product the price it should 'deserve' is just untrue. There's more factors than the cost.
 

Megiddo

-dono
Retired
Unless I'm mistaken, the UK should be getting Animax pretty soon, which would put ya ahead of USA television in regards of anime shown
wink.gif
 

Koutakun

-chan
Kouhai
What I find is that I can't watch DVDs of anime, instead of this I watch mostly on my iPod and in fact I'm typing this on my iPod however there is a lack of legal ways of watching anime legally on the iPod therefore I resort to watching fansubs and ripped copies on sites such as veoh, I would like to support the anime industry but I find myself unable to what I would like is to be able to view Crunchyroll on my iPod or have more anime at better prices on iTunes.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE (Koutakun @ Aug 14 2009, 10:12 AM) I would like to support the anime industry but I find myself unable to what I would like is to be able to view Crunchyroll on my iPod or have more anime at better prices on iTunes.
Download them on veoh AND buy the DVD ?
That way, everybody's happy. Such a simple solution.
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Aug 18 2009, 12:47 AM) Download them on veoh AND buy the DVD ?
That way, everybody's happy. Such a simple solution.
OR!!! you could just rip 'em off the internet... and then plan maybe someday purchasing all of them years from now once you strike it rich! That's my plan, lol.
tongue.gif
 

langes01x

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE (EggBeast @ Aug 24 2009, 09:58 PM) OR!!! you could just rip 'em off the internet... and then plan maybe someday purchasing all of them years from now once you strike it rich! That's my plan, lol.
tongue.gif

I hope you don't mind me saying but advocating downloading dvd-rips (or any anime that is available on dvd already) is not what this anime community is about in any way, shape or form. Fansub is devoted to providing anime to people that they can not buy or acquire through legal means (at least in an understandable form aka english).

We in no way advocate downloading of anime that is available for purchase elsewhere because of the legal and moral consequences that come with pirating anime.

If a mod sees this post please PM this to EggBeast and delete both this post and his own. Or whatever you think is appropriate in this case.
 

Kit-Tsukasa

-desu
Retired
I'm starting to see the conversation in this thread get out of hand. Let's get a few things straight:
1) very few fansub groups, if any, actually fansub because they feel like doing something illegal. In fact, most fansubs actually support the industry.
2) If anyone is causing harm to the industry, it's those people who have the money to afford buying the dvds when the series are licensed in their country and simply refuse to buy them.
3) Fansub TV itself does not support in any way, shape, or form of only downloading fansubs. Fansub TV only provides anime that are unobtainable in the US, hence why we stop distribution after licensing.

There are more that I can list, but I do not see the reason this kind of discussion should even continue since as langes01x stated, this community does not support series that are available in the US.
 

hkdmz

-chan
Kouhai
I try to help in any way that I can, but being a student I'm not receiving any reasonable income, at least not enough to comfortably purchase DVDs or boxed sets on a regular basis.

I bought Gurren Lagann once it was licensed here in the US because I loved the show before, and I remember paying 20 USD for a DVD that had 9 episodes in English subtitles. For someone who enjoys fansubs more than dubbed titles this was a steal, but shortly after I purchased the last DVD they took that version off the shelves and put up individual volumes with only 4 episodes for 5 USD more. It just doesn't make sense how we pay so much for so little...

Despite that I still try and purchase the shows I loved when I watched their fansubs. I currently have about 6 series that I've paid close to 60 USD each, so I feel that in some way I've helped contribute to the anime industry.
 

EggBeast

- deska`
Retired
QUOTE (langes01x @ Aug 25 2009, 12:03 AM) I hope you don't mind me saying but advocating downloading dvd-rips (or any anime that is available on dvd already) is not what this anime community is about in any way, shape or form. Fansub is devoted to providing anime to people that they can not buy or acquire through legal means (at least in an understandable form aka english).

We in no way advocate downloading of anime that is available for purchase elsewhere because of the legal and moral consequences that come with pirating anime.

If a mod sees this post please PM this to EggBeast and delete both this post and his own. Or whatever you think is appropriate in this case.
I'm not advocating anything of the sort. I guess I didn't get too detailed with it in my last post, but this is one of the main reasons I've stuck with FTV, since this site has been really good about not distributing licensed materials. But even so, when you get down to brass-and-tacks, you're still taking someone else's hard work without giving them a penny. True, for most of the material on this site, it would be incredibly difficult to actually pay for it, but that doesn't make it any more legal. I haven't downloaded anything licensed for years now, and between ftv and sites like hulu, there's really no need.

I am in no way in favor of illegally obtaining licensed content, however, I AM in favor of re-vamping our old copyright laws that are virtually unenforceable and turn 75% of citizens into criminals.
 

Kit-Tsukasa

-desu
Retired
QUOTE (hkdmz @ Aug 25 2009, 01:23 PM) I try to help in any way that I can, but being a student I'm not receiving any reasonable income, at least not enough to comfortably purchase DVDs or boxed sets on a regular basis.

I bought Gurren Lagann once it was licensed here in the US because I loved the show before, and I remember paying 20 USD for a DVD that had 9 episodes in English subtitles. For someone who enjoys fansubs more than dubbed titles this was a steal, but shortly after I purchased the last DVD they took that version off the shelves and put up individual volumes with only 4 episodes for 5 USD more. It just doesn't make sense how we pay so much for so little...

Despite that I still try and purchase the shows I loved when I watched their fansubs. I currently have about 6 series that I've paid close to 60 USD each, so I feel that in some way I've helped contribute to the anime industry.
If you think about it, $20 for 9 episodes is a great deal
dry.gif
Definitely better than most out there. In Japan, you get 2-3 episodes (4 if your lucky with no subs, etc...) for about $80 for the Blu-ray, $50 for the DVD. The only reason why we think it's so expensive in the US is because compared to Japan, US charges significantly more for daily necessities (food, drinks, electricity, etc...) and this is before all the ridiculous taxes they charge you.

After much thought, I think that the price they charge you for an anime DVD nowadays is actually more reasonable than what it was before, especially when it was first being introduced in the US. I remember the original Macross stuff (4 episodes for 1 DVD) costing about $50+ back in the 90s.
 

pjcountach

-chi
Kouhai
My personal method of dealing with sticker shock is to bite the bullet when it's a show I love and its new.

For all else...Sales
rolleyes.gif

---ex. Chobits clearance at Right-stuf back in April...$7 dollars per dvd, even the extras disk just for kicks.

Also Sentai Filmworks...$30 dollars gets you 12 subbed episodes of a series...what's not to like?---It made Clannad cost $60 dollars instead of $170 right at release.

I use fansub.tv because it shares my belief that licensed anime should be bought...personally, I buy what I download...and then I buy old stuff to supplement.
 

hkdmz

-chan
Kouhai
QUOTE (Kit-Tsukasa @ Aug 25 2009, 05:55 PM) If you think about it, $20 for 9 episodes is a great deal
dry.gif
Definitely better than most out there. In Japan, you get 2-3 episodes (4 if your lucky with no subs, etc...) for about $80 for the Blu-ray, $50 for the DVD. The only reason why we think it's so expensive in the US is because compared to Japan, US charges significantly more for daily necessities (food, drinks, electricity, etc...) and this is before all the ridiculous taxes they charge you.

After much thought, I think that the price they charge you for an anime DVD nowadays is actually more reasonable than what it was before, especially when it was first being introduced in the US. I remember the original Macross stuff (4 episodes for 1 DVD) costing about $50+ back in the 90s.
I guess you're right, but even with the comparison to what we pay here I'm still scrapped for cash, so anything that seems remotely unreasonable turns me off of the purchase. Sometimes though I wish they would keep the volumes that offer only English subs for a longer period of time so both audiences--those who watch fansubs and those who prefer dubs--can be satisfied. I understand that it would be very unfair to someone who doesn't prefer subs to see the other guys getting more for what they pay, but I can't see an outcome that would appease both sides...
sad.gif
 

Barbobot

-the Pirate King
Retired
QUOTE (pjcountach @ Aug 25 2009, 06:28 PM) My personal method of dealing with sticker shock is to bite the bullet when it's a show I love and its new.

For all else...Sales
rolleyes.gif

---ex. Chobits clearance at Right-stuf back in April...$7 dollars per dvd, even the extras disk just for kicks.

Also Sentai Filmworks...$30 dollars gets you 12 subbed episodes of a series...what's not to like?---It made Clannad cost $60 dollars instead of $170 right at release.

I use fansub.tv because it shares my belief that licensed anime should be bought...personally, I buy what I download...and then I buy old stuff to supplement.
Or the best thing to do is buy the series when they come out as full season box sets (like the Clannad ones you were talking about). A list of full seasons I bought mostly ranging from $40-65 each, with some even cheaper:

Cowboy Bebop
Last Exile
Gankuotsu
Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi
Beck
Black Lagoon 1 & 2
Elfen Lied
Eureka Seven
Evangelion
Full Metal Panic
Full Metal Panic: The Second Raid
Ghost in the Shell: SAC 1 & 2
Ghost Hunt
Gundam Wing
Outlaw Star
Red Garden
Romeo x Juliet
RahXephon
Samurai Champloo
Samurai 7
YuYu Hakusho

(Wow, seeing the list makes me realize I have a fair amount)

Anyway that's one of the cheapest ways to buy the shows. I always think of buying singles as a complete rip-off. And I always like to buy the shows that I really enjoyed. I'm still waiting for Darker than Black and Baccano! to be released as box sets and will surely buy them.
 

Hiroyuki

-sama
Retired
It's true that anime is a lot cheaper than it used to be. Anime DVD's in the UK used to be at least twice the price of other DVDs, but now they are a similar price to regular DVDs (which have fallen in the meantime, so I can now buy anime for about 1/3 the price it used to be).

However there is still the problem that downloaded AVIs are a darn sight more convenient than DVDs. With fansubs I can have dozens of series and films on hand on my hard disk, whereas with DVDs I have to dig them out and load them up and then piss around with stupid menus and intros, whereas with a fansub I can just click directly on the episode I want and it starts to play, no faffing around. Moreover I can easily move it to my pocket PC or any other device I want to watch it on too.

With DVD's not only do you lose the spontaneity of being able to call up a particular film or episode in a couple of clicks, you also have to spend hours ripping and re-encoding if you want to watch them on a portable device. What's more, ripping a DVD you already own is actually MORE illegal than downloading a pirate copy (criminal rather than civil law, due to stupid laws which make it illegal to override access controls as used by most DVDs - thanks to the infamous DMCA and its EU equivalent).

So the stupid situation that you often hear people talking about is that they buy the DVD out of loyalty or guilt etc, but continue to watch the fansubs because it's so much easier! Indeed I tend to do that myself, I have a few DVDs I've never watched because I already have the old fansub versions to hand on my hard disk. (This doesn't just apply to anime though, I also have this situation with some domestic broadcasts that I'd already recorded off air onto my computer.)

So what would make me inclined to buy more DVDs is if they included ready-made AVI files that I could copy to my hard disk or portable player. In fact, junk the whole MPEG2/VOB format and just store stuff on the DVDs as individual mpeg4 files, one per episode, in the first place! Also, decent softsubs would be nice, the subtitles on DVDs are usually much uglier than fansub ones, and ISTM that the distributors put much less effort into them than fansubbers do.
 

Kit-Tsukasa

-desu
Retired
QUOTE (Barbobot @ Aug 25 2009, 06:30 PM) Or the best thing to do is buy the series when they come out as full season box sets (like the Clannad ones you were talking about). A list of full seasons I bought mostly ranging from $40-65 each, with some even cheaper:

Last Exile

due to this being completely out of print, I saw it on several sites (overstock, ebay, etc...) selling for $140+ It's a fantastic series and I don't see why this one had to go out of print.

The one point of fansubs I like is the people who do it mostly put effort into it and there is a variety. Although some people may not like the fancy karaoke and typesetting, at least they're doing something and it's definitely better than the ugly yellow/green/white font that licensing companies use, especially the location where they often stick those. Not to mention that they alternate translation per episode rather than simply have kanji, romanji, and english translation all in the same episode like fansubbers do.
In addition the translations in general can vary from preserving the original dialogue to moderate/extreme localization whereas for DVDs you only get one kind and it's the same in every box.

FYI Kit Funimation relatively recently released a full season boxset that shouldn't be out of print since it only just came out in May. That's the one I have and you can get it for $40 from amazon or a bit cheaper from righstuf
 
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