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Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE We may even be more mature than most or just plain smarter and bored.

It doesn't match my experimental data.
It's not sustained by a rational explaination.
So I don't think you're right here.


More seriously, you're right when you say one shouldn't be pigeonholed because of one taste. But that also means that saying that anime-watchers (which is very different from otakus) are mature or childish.
Some are, some aren't. It's not an homogeneous community (imho, it's not even a community).

-------


QUOTE
I didn't expect my half hearted study to face this much scrutiny. I thought that was what school/university and work are for!

School is here to provide us some skills that should be used in our everyday life.
 

Rox

-chi
Kouhai
Some are, some aren't. It's not an homogeneous community (imho, it's not even a community).
Yeah, we in turn can't judge. But I have noticed anime-watchers (and all manga related fans) are the least judgemental.

thanks for your input.
Regards
Rox
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE (Rox @ Mar 26 2008, 03:33 AM) But I have noticed anime-watchers (and all manga related fans) are the least judgemental.

It might be a perception bias.
The whole "My minority is less judgemental than others" is pretty common, because usually a minority isn't harsh on itself. So obviously, the anime-watching 'community' won't judge you for watching animes, which is probably one of the most perceptible point for you.

I'm not sure that anime-watchers are less judgemental than the rest of the world regarding other characteristics.
 

Rox

-chi
Kouhai
QUOTE (Dalriada @ Mar 26 2008, 04:43 AM) It might be a perception bias.


They dont judge me about the anime, but also dont judge me for my some times irrational dislikes for anime.

The same can be said for music lovers, church goers, dancers, etc.
I guess that experiences with judgement deffers from person to person and background to background.

I get your drift.
 

KittenEatCorpse

-chan
Kouhai
I'm 28 year old kid. For me I never really felt like an adult or what I thought an adult should. I play video games and read fantasy book (nothing in the real world), on top of it all I watch anime. So maybe we are all just kids.
 

dragon9735

New Member
Kouhai
they will never understand it henti is sometimes made or drawn overdramactly and spent to mush time it and u can often tell when too when it has so much work put in it is not often good but it can be good but still adults will still never understand but it is still good but most adults still like it becuz they just cant get any thing thats probuly y
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Kouhai
QUOTE (dragon9735 @ May 13 2008, 01:44 PM)they will never understand it henti is sometimes made or drawn overdramactly and spent to mush time it and u can often tell when too when it has so much work put in it is not often good but it can be good but still adults will still never understand but it is still good but most adults still like it becuz they just cant get any thing thats probuly y

I've edited this quite heavily. What I think they said (please correct me if I'm wrong
):

"They will never understand it. Hentai is sometimes made or drawn over dramatically. Spend too much time watching it and you can often tell so much work has been put into it. It seems good but lacks substance. Still adults will never understand it but will still think it is good as most adults will like it for the fanservice. Probably because they just can't get anything that's probably why."

I advice looking at the rules it will be helpful. Try to use proper grammar, for other peoples' sake so they can understand what you're saying. Please bear in mind not everyone's first language is English. That aside...

Try to avoid generalisations they are often wrong. People watch anime for a variety of reasons so to say all adults watch anime for fanservice is unfair and wrong. I can understand violence and sex are often popular themes in all media (not limited to anime) but that doesn't mean all adults watch it for those reasons. Other important elements are plots and character development. I for one (an adult) do not watch anime for fanservice alone, I feel plot and character development are more important factors. Hence I tend to avoid series like Kanokon.

Again I stress don't develop a siege mentality of us against them.
 

nijlandp

-sama
Sempai
I can agree with monsta666. People watch anime for all kinds of reasons. Some like the comedy, some for the story. It just depends on the person and how they are feeling at that moment. I would say: don't judge people for what they watch but for what they do. If someone wants to watch fanservice because they like it, that's fine with me. If someone wants to watch action or drama, also fine by me.
I am also an adult and some people sometimes ask why i watch anime. I enjoy watching the stories, action and the humour that can only be found in anime. To me it is a hobby just like any other hobby: to relieve stress and enjoy yourself. Some adults play with trains, some watch anime. And just like the adults who play with trains (some like old steamlocomotives, others the miniversions and others the new types) there are different streams in the adults who watch anime.
 

layab86

-chi
Kouhai
QUOTE (KittenEatCorpse @ Mar 26 2008, 11:21 AM)I'm 28 year old kid. For me I never really felt like an adult or what I thought an adult should. I play video games and read fantasy book (nothing in the real world), on top of it all I watch anime. So maybe we are all just kids.
maybe... then again my mom is 52 and she watches anime with me (and likes it) but I definitely don't think of her as a "kid."

I think that a lot of people see anime, associate it with the cartoons they watched going up, and generalize it as kid's stuff before they even see what the stories are about. What they fail to realize is that there is a lot of anime out there that kids wouldn't understand if they watched it.

More adults could appreciate anime, they just need someone to help them find something they like (the is more that one genre of anime out there).
 

BoukenGreen

-chi
Kouhai
QUOTE (layab86 @ May 13 2008, 01:51 PM) More adults could appreciate anime, they just need someone to help them find something they like (the is more that one genre of anime out there).
I agree, but I think its actually a bit more than that. I've shown my dad various anime series so he could get an idea of why I like this stuff. None of it was hentai, though there was a good lot of fan service (Thank you cast of Love Hina) and no matter what I showed him he still felt that because it was animated, it was kids stuff.
 

khael

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ being M
Sempai
I have another thought on this matter... Maybe it also has something to do with responsibilities and time? My dad used to really love animation, his favorite was those giant robots and Casshan [Now Casshern]... But now it seems he's grown out of it.

But my guess was wrong. When i was watching an anime i downloaded he sat down and watche beside me [It wasn't porn mind you
]. I asked him a bunch of questions and, i've found pretty much why he doesn't watch anime anymore... Time. He's got a lot of responsibilities and the only time he can use to watch tv is reserved for news and the free time he gets goes to rest and sleep.

I think not everyone has as much free time as us, i myself haven't watched any anime this past couple of weeks due to some heavy workload and responsibilities.

I think that mindset equates to something like this: "I have much more important things at hand than watching toons".

I'm not saying it's applicable to all, i just found out that it was the case with my dad [and mom]... Now time to go to find a box set of Voltes V as a gift to them...
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Kouhai
QUOTE (khael @ May 17 2008, 06:36 PM)When i was watching an anime i downloaded he sat down and watche beside me. I asked him a bunch of questions and, i've found pretty much why he doesn't watch anime anymore... Time. He's got a lot of responsibilities and the only time he can use to watch tv is reserved for news and the free time he gets goes to rest and sleep.
That and priorities. Some people have different priorities. My sister who was quite into anime never watches it now. She will say she doesn't have the time to watch anime. Yet she finds the time to watch Big Brother, Desperate Housewives go to the cinema and read some novels. Dare I say all these hobbies take more time than watching an episode of anime (23 minutes)? So you see sometimes it's not always an issue of time but priorities.


QUOTE (khael @ May 17 2008, 06:36 PM)It wasn't porn mind you


Are you sure?



QUOTE (Title headline)Anime and Adult, Geez...why adult never understand?
You know I hear similar arguments about why people don't like cricket. If only they knew the variety of deliveries a bowler could do; if only people knew how graceful a batsman is or when will the public appreciate the game etc etc. I guess it all boils down to isolating your community from the rest. Claiming your community is more understanding...

About fanservice... Everyone here seems to think fanservice is okay, it's not porn it should be acceptable etc etc. Let me remind you if these characters were not animated it would be classed for older viewers. I mean close up shots of breasts and pants? These things really belong after the watershed (i.e. not for kids). Furthermore some of the characters depicted are well, quite young. Sure some may claim to be older (like Moetan) but the fact remains they look like children. Then you have issues when older women (usually teachers) hit on boys (is this paedophilia)? I remember a show on channel 4 joking about this subject, it was swiftly banned. So it is obvious why there can be some friction between anime and the western world. I think this is one of the factors why people take such a dim light to anime (even call it porn).

After all isn't Nuts the magazine just a bit of fanservice/ecchi? Far better to say fanservice than suggestive pictures or even soft porn
(which is what Nuts or page 3 basically are). Speaking of page 3 models and ecchi. The ecchi rules show remarkable simialrities:
  • A model must have natural breasts. In the ecchi thread breasts that are too big are not allowed.
  • No female genitalia is shown. Same applies to ecchi thread.
  • No sex toys can be used. Same in the ecchi thread.
  • She cannot be seen to be pleasuring herself or giving pleasure to others. Same applies to the ecchi thread.
So you see while people accept ecchi pics (it's part of the anime scene) they do not accept page 3 pictures because it's porn! All I'm saying is don't be too quick to condemn people who class anime as porn after watching a few scenes of fanservice.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE
About fanservice... Everyone here seems to think fanservice is okay, it's not porn it should be acceptable etc etc.

Even if fanservice is acceptable (because it's just pictures, no real people involved), it's quite often damned boring.
Showing boobs and pants may entertain some teenagers. But others people will find it annoying if it affects the story or the characters (last example in mind : Mnemosyne, or let's show naked girls having some action for no reason).
 

khael

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ being M
Sempai
I thought cricket was an excuse to drink tea?


QUOTE A model must have natural breasts. In the ecchi thread breasts that are too big are not allowed.
No female genitalia is shown. Same applies to ecchi thread.
No sex toys can be used. Same in the ecchi thread.
She cannot be seen to be pleasuring herself or giving pleasure to others. Same applies to the ecchi thread.

Just checked the thread... Most of them are not true...


And yeah, moonsta, priorities in life as well as responsibilities. And more possibly, some people just "grow out of it". Kinda like weaning a baby from breastfeeding.

On fanservice, i don't like anime with too much of it. Like what Dalraida said, i enjoy it more if the story is deeper. Like Ghost Hound, Death Note and what not. But i do think that because of fanservice, anime tends to send a negative vibe to much of the "conservative" adult audience. E.g. relating it to pornography etc.
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Kouhai
QUOTE (khael @ May 20 2008, 07:10 PM)Just checked the thread... Most of them are not true...

I didn't quote it word for word but let me assure you the rules do exist!
Look at the rules shown in Ecchi Pics 3. The normal text is the page 3 rules the quoted text are the ecchi rules.

A page 3 model must have natural breasts i.e not too big:

QUOTE 2.2 - Nipples are acceptable, however breasts that are too big are not allowed. The ratio of head and breasts must be under 1:2, which means the breasts cannot be bigger than two heads of the character in the picture. Anything bigger will be consider /d/ materials by 4chan standard.

She doesn't use sex toys:

QUOTE 2. Images that contain sex toys or tentacle are not allowed.

The models never expose their genitalia. I believe the ecchi standards are looser as you are allowed to show non-detailed genitals. Is it closer to porn than page 3?


QUOTE 2.01 Images with explicit, detailed female genital areas are not allowed. Make sure the girl is sufficiently clothed (or her genital areas are not exposed) if you are going to post such a picture. If in doubt, don't post.

She cannot be seen to be pleasuring herself or giving pleasure to others:

QUOTE 2.1 Characters cannot be giving or experiencing sexual pleasure. This includes the use of fingers, fists, hands, legs, etc either by the girl herself, or another character, to provide sexual pleasure.
Like Dalriada suggested the real difference between ecchi/fan service and soft porn is one involves the hiring of real models. However if one calls ecchi animated porn it can be difficult to argue against it.


QUOTE And yeah, moonsta, priorities in life as well as responsibilities. And more possibly, some people just "grow out of it". Kinda like weaning a baby from breastfeeding.

Monotony can also be added. Some people grow weary of the repetition of anime. There are so many harem animes! There seems to be a million series dedicated to them!
Or any other genre for that matter (think how many Gundam series there are). It's one of the reasons I have gone off computer games. Tekken 6, Pro Evolution Soccer 7, Grand Theft Auto 4, Gran Turismo 5, (the list of sequels is endless).



QUOTE On fanservice, i don't like anime with too much of it. Like what Dalraida said, i enjoy it more if the story is deeper. Like Ghost Hound, Death Note and what not. But i do think that because of fanservice, anime tends to send a negative vibe to much of the "conservative" adult audience. E.g. relating it to pornography etc.
As they say sex sells. For every person who likes a deep story you will find 5 who simply want fan service. Why are there so many harem series out there despite the plots being non-existent/predictable?


QUOTE (khael @ May 20 2008, 07:10 PM)I thought cricket was an excuse to drink tea?
You are right tea is an important part of cricket!
They must always break for tea (the recent England match even saw England take tea early)!
Saying that a lot of cricket is played in between. Too much for some (I could include players).


DISCLAIMER: I don't hate harem series (see my profile) however it's easy to see how this genre can quickly become tiresome.
 

khael

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ being M
Sempai
I meant even if the rules are there, people still post those kind of stuff..


Yah monotony, the enemy of all harem animes and famed anime directors/producers. The reason why i stopped watching when i was halfway through some of the series that i was watching recently. I always want something fresh. But that doesn't apply to all people yes like you said. As long as there are men, there will be harem anime...
My theory on harem anime is that it's like the screaming girl syndrome of boybands. Or men are just downright horny down to the core. What kind of guy wouldn't want to be surrounded by his dream girls? Kinda like how a lot of men want the "playboy mansion" lifestyle.

As for the negative image that harem anime tends to show to the "conservative" people, no, wait. Everything is included, not only harem, the violence, the culture, the language at times. I've seen a lot of people bashing anime [cue blogs for brownback, the worst i've seen] and quite frankly it pisses me off because their biased reports and reviews on anime makes anime fans look like "evil people" to the again, "conservative adults". I think that's another reason why some adults never appreciate anime. The culture and religion is involved.

-EDITED-

Is it me or does UK have a steamy love affair with tea?
 

poonk

-dono
Kouhai
QUOTE (monsta666 @ May 20 2008, 06:29 AM)So it is obvious why there can be some friction between anime and the western world. I think this is one of the factors why people take such a dim light to anime (even call it porn).I have to agree. I've already related this in the "How you got into anime" thread, but I almost didn't get into anime because my first exposure to it, looong ago, was Akira (too violent for my taste) and Ninja Scroll (seeing the only female character get sexually assaulted was a big turn-off); if I hadn't developed a crush on a fanboy years later (and if he hadn't lent me Trigun, Hellsing, & FLCL), I might have written anime off as mostly violent misogyny too. So some of (some) adults' aversions to it might be due to limited exposure to the many non-violent (or maybe I should say, non-gratuitously violent), non-hentai titles that are available now.
 

Patrick5087

-san
Kouhai
Eh honestly anime has such a wide verity it pretty much has something for everyone. I think the main reason why Anime isn't so wide in America is that there are so few networks showing it. I mean all you have is anime on at screwed up hours. Expect for pokemon, and for awhile Yu-gi-oh!. So its starting to be accepted its just going to take awhile. I know all my friends are bleach/naruto fans.

Also consider that I think most anime are for teens. And honestly America hasn't to my knowledge come up with anything for that age group.
 

monsta666

-the bee's knees
Kouhai
QUOTE (khael @ May 21 2008, 04:11 AM)I meant even if the rules are there, people still post those kind of stuff..

Can't stop the horny buggers from getting what they want!
Rules only go so far...



QUOTE As for the negative image that harem anime tends to show to the "conservative" people, no, wait. Everything is included, not only harem, the violence, the culture, the language at times. I've seen a lot of people bashing anime [cue blogs for brownback, the worst i've seen] and quite frankly it pisses me off because their biased reports and reviews on anime makes anime fans look like "evil people" to the again, "conservative adults". I think that's another reason why some adults never appreciate anime. The culture and religion is involved.

Another factor that causes tension is the fact that the Japanese have a different culture to the west. Looking at some series their tolerance for sex and violence seems different. In anime it is somewhat acceptable to show a girl's knickers. In the west this can be seen as paedophilia. At the very least these programs would be seen to be encouraging it. Notice that when a series is licensed they often change the characters age? Instead of calling them school kids they say college students. It's a cheap way of getting round the problem and making it more acceptable to the masses.

Then there's the violence. Unlike TV series (which have real actors) the possibility for gore is greater. Gratuitous violence will always brings its own critics. Couple this with nudity and it is easy to see how anime can be percieved as an "evil" to society. By the way I don't really believe that TV violence turns people violent, at the very least it is grossly exaggerated by the media.


QUOTE (khael @ May 21 2008, 04:11 AM)Is it me or does UK have a steamy love affair with tea?


It's part of being British. I remember reading a book about how the British army designed a tank so they can make tea using the heat from the engine! Now that's dedication!



QUOTE (Patrick5087 @ May 22 2008, 07:13 AM)Eh honestly anime has such a wide verity it pretty much has something for everyone. I think the main reason why Anime isn't so wide in America is that there are so few networks showing it. I mean all you have is anime on at screwed up hours. Expect for pokemon, and for awhile Yu-gi-oh!. So its starting to be accepted its just going to take awhile. I know all my friends are bleach/naruto fans.
You think America is bad, come to England! They show nothing here. There's a bit of Naruto here and there but really nothing. Anime seems to be limited to a few selves in HMV. Saying that I can imagine it being worse in other countries.
 

Dalriada

-dono
Sempai
QUOTE
Another factor that causes tension is the fact that the Japanese have a different culture to the west. Looking at some series their tolerance for sex and violence seems different. In anime it is somewhat acceptable to show a girl's knickers. In the west this can seen as paedophilia.

It has been seen as paedophilia. Dragonball (yes, the Dragonball we know) had some serious problems in the 90's in Belgium IIRC, because of the early stuff with Bulma.
Of course, it was right in the middle of the Dutroux case (famous paedophilia case that shocked Belgium), so this explains that.

By the way, the difference in cultures also works over the Atlantic (less, because we can't do without American stuff. At least not without clising half of our TV channels). American shows are often said to be too violent, especially gun-related violence (think about all the cops series or the hollywood action movies).
And I'm quite sure some French movies are rated more severely in the US because of some nudity.


QUOTE
You think America is bad, come to England! They show nothing here. There's a bit of Naruto here and there but really nothing. Anime seems to be limited to a few selves in HMV. Saying that I can imagine it being worse in other countries.

In France, it's quite strange. We had a lot of animes in the 80's (Japanese -Grenziger, Candy Candy, Cat's eyes, City Hunter...-, American -MASK, GI Joe, Transformers- and even some European ones), but thanked to very silly decisions like programming Hokuto no Ken during a show aimed at children (They didn't even care to watch the damned anime before broadcasting it), animes gained a bad reputation on TV (although we still had Evangelion, Escaflowne, Utena on Canal+).
Now, animes are broadcasted mainly on the cable, but the shelves are full of DVD boxes (and of mangas. We're one of the main markets outside Japan IIRC).
 
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