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The Nature Of Reality


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#21 samthebear

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Posted 31 July 2007 - 10:55 AM

QUOTE (outl-w_monsum @ Jul 31 2007, 08:17 PM)
A different example is that of the Theatre stage and audience. When we look into our minds (introspection) we are like an audience who are watching actors on a stage (the actors on the stage are our thoughts, desires and feelings). However! What about the audience?? Who is looking at them?? and isnt the audience supposed to be part of our mind? So we can never be completely self-aware.

the actors will be looking at the audience and thus you are seeing yourself from different perspectives but its still being watched/looked at. its like looking at yourself in a mirror. you are looking at yourself and your reflection is looking right back! i think self-awareness is on many different levels, the most basic one would probably know what you are currently doing and with what part of your body. (ie: you are writing a letter; you know you are using your hand to write out the letter, etc) but then there are the higher levels - being aware of your thoughts etc...
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#22 andre

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 12:34 PM

Reality is not how one sees it. It is how we see it.

Consider This:

take for example, I am physically sitting next to samthebear.
samthebear and I acknowledges each other's existance. (eg, by saying hi)
This is called linear reality, where two self aware bodies acknoledge another's existance.

lets say, Nahrallah now enters the room. She acknoledges both mine and samthebear's existance.
This is called collective reality.

Now, lets remove both Nahrallah and Samthebear. I am alone in the room, with no other self aware body to acknowledge that I am real.
This is called substantiative reality, when a conscious (self aware) body knows that it exists.

However:

if in linear reality, i see something that samthebear doesnt, it becomes a hallucination. A fantasy, ergo not real because no two consciousness' can come to consensus on one reality. Thus, who is to say, what is real or not? This is called selective reality, where one appears real to a consciousness, but not to another.

In a collective reality, if a majority acknowledges the existance of another reality, that reality thus becomes real. This is called consensus reality.

Conclusion:

The reality that we live in is consensus reality. So long as a majority holds the same view on the world, that view is deemed real, and therefore in existance. We tend to marginalise the minorities, (such as schitzophrenics) because simply, their reality just cannot conform with the masses.


#23 outl-w_monsum

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE (andre @ Aug 04 2007, 06:34 AM)
Reality is not how one sees it. It is how we see it.

Consider This:

take for example, I am physically sitting next to samthebear.
samthebear and I acknowledges each other's existance. (eg, by saying hi)
This is called linear reality, where two self aware bodies acknoledge another's existance.

lets say, Nahrallah now enters the room. She acknoledges both mine and samthebear's existance.
This is called collective reality.

Now, lets remove both Nahrallah and Samthebear. I am alone in the room, with no other self aware body to acknowledge that I am real.
This is called substantiative reality, when a conscious (self aware) body knows that it exists.

However:

if in linear reality, i see something that samthebear doesnt, it becomes a hallucination. A fantasy, ergo not real because no two consciousness' can come to consensus on one reality. Thus, who is to say, what is real or not? This is called selective reality, where one appears real to a consciousness, but not to another.

In a collective reality, if a majority acknowledges the existance of another reality, that reality thus becomes real. This is called consensus reality.

Conclusion:

The reality that we live in is consensus reality. So long as a majority holds the same view on the world, that view is deemed real, and therefore in existance. We tend to marginalise the minorities, (such as schitzophrenics) because simply, their reality just cannot conform with the masses.

so wat about a tree that falls in a forest, where there is no consciousness to observe it?
does this mean that the tree never made a sound when it fell because there was nobody to hear it?

i dont think so...
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#24 andre

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 12:47 PM

QUOTE
so wat about a tree that falls in a forest, where there is no consciousness to observe it?
does this mean that the tree never made a sound when it fell because there was nobody to hear it?


false. If a tree falls in a forest, there will be a consciousness to realise it.
Following the theory that the world exists simply because there are people to observe it, and living things that live in it, it will exist. (operative word being forest. In a forest there will be a consciousness) One plausable place where a consciousness wont exist would probably be in a wormhole, but thats getting into quantum physics and all that.

#25 mibukyo

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:15 AM

QUOTE (samthebear @ Jul 31 2007, 03:47 AM)
its hard to know what is reality - sometimes i feel as though i am not me. like i dont know who i am - even though my brain tells me i know who i am, where i am, what i'm doing, etc i get a heavy sinking feeling (alike fear) in my heart that just tells me i'm not who i am. so then what can i say reality is? the closest definition i can probably stick on the word 'reality' would be this:

Reality, is not defined by being awake. rather it is defined by one's self awareness and one's surroundings.

i can be self-aware in a dream and be acutely aware of my surroundings in a dream, so does that make it reality? according to my own definition yes. but reality only to yourself and no one else.


just wondering....is it possible to lose yourself.....its true that you may know who you are and what you doing but i think it comes more with the feeling of being alone. ummm...to put it simply: that we dont have the feeling that we belong even though we have friends and family, theres always this feeling that never sits right so to speak.

The nature of reality......well....i think reality is our surroundings and it cannot be summed up by dreams or hopes. Reality is something that can be seen and felt not something dreamt of or hoped for. But reality can also resemble our life i guess. for example...to people who play online rpg's for countless hours on end....their reality is that particular game where they can 'live'. Even though it may not be seen as a reality for the majority of people, just one person is to believe in something makes it a reality for that person....just like a imaginary friend.

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#26 fourier

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:39 AM

I agreed with Hobbes, everything is simply energy and particles (or just strings, if that turns out to be true) interacting and they happen to form these patterns that we've named. Things like stars, planets, elements, heat, you name it. I agreed with that, until I thought about consciousness. There's a couple possibilities for it. I could be the only conscious being in the universe, which really is centered around me. I have absolutely no way to know that this is wrong. Other people say that they have a consciousness, but that could just be the result of weird electrochemical(?) reactions in the brain. It could be that consciousness is really something special, and that life is in fact something more than just a really, really, really complicated chemical reaction. Once again, I can't disprove this, because if it really is just a "spirit" thing, there might not be an afterlife, and I'll just disappear into a void. There is also the possibility that consciousness is just an illusion created by the brain. This would be hard to understand, but seeing as how the brain is really complicated, and humans are far from understanding everything about the laws of the universe, it's still quite possible.

I dunno man, but it keeps me up at night. Wait, no, that's the homework...

I wonder if people who had a heart attack or something, and were basically dead for a few minutes before being revived by those shock paddles, still experience consciousness. If they don't, I'd think life was a pretty special thing, and I'd take it a lot more seriously and treat it with more respect. If they do, then it's just another chemical reaction, and there really isn't anything special about us...
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#27 outl-w_monsum

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE (andre @ Aug 04 2007, 06:47 AM)

false. If a tree falls in a forest, there will be a consciousness to realise it.
Following the theory that the world exists simply because there are people to observe it, and living things that live in it, it will exist. (operative word being forest. In a forest there will be a consciousness) One plausable place where a consciousness wont exist would probably be in a wormhole, but thats getting into quantum physics and all that.

dude, if i fire a gun, in a forest, several times - all the birds and all the animals, will run away.
say whilst they are all away a tree falls (so basically there is nothing conscious to experience the sound of the tree falling) then according to your ideas, because there was nothing there to experience the sound, it never happened.

You can't say that something is only real if one person or loads of people see it. You say that if one person sees something and another doesnt, then the person who sees it is hallucinating - it maybe that the one who doesnt see is not observing properly! It's like when one person hears a sound, and another doesnt. Also, a group of people can be high on weed, or be having hallucinations from LSD - this is a group of people all seeing things - it does not follow that because a group of people realise a certain experience, that those things are in fact REAL.

also if you say that there is no consciousness when it comes to wormholes, then how the f*** do we know they exist? lol

My point here is simply to show that reality is not an observer relative notion. Things are happening, whether there is someone there to see them happen or not. I leave my laptop on all night to download stuff - in the morning the download is finished! There was no need for anything to consciously observe this to make sure it happened! It just did!

Similarly, the very early events in the universe took place - before Humans are said to have evolved. What consciousness was there to observe those events and make them real? (maybe God - but thats a WHOLE other debate lol).
QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 10 2007, 02:15 AM)
QUOTE (samthebear @ Jul 31 2007, 03:47 AM)its hard to know what is reality - sometimes i feel as though i am not me. like i dont know who i am - even though my brain tells me i know who i am, where i am, what i'm doing, etc i get a heavy sinking feeling (alike fear) in my heart that just tells me i'm not who i am. so then what can i say reality is? the closest definition i can probably stick on the word 'reality' would be this:

Reality, is not defined by being awake. rather it is defined by one's self awareness and one's surroundings.

i can be self-aware in a dream and be acutely aware of my surroundings in a dream, so does that make it reality? according to my own definition yes. but reality only to yourself and no one else.

just wondering....is it possible to lose yourself.....its true that you may know who you are and what you doing but i think it comes more with the feeling of being alone. ummm...to put it simply: that we dont have the feeling that we belong even though we have friends and family, theres always this feeling that never sits right so to speak.

The nature of reality......well....i think reality is our surroundings and it cannot be summed up by dreams or hopes. Reality is something that can be seen and felt not something dreamt of or hoped for. But reality can also resemble our life i guess. for example...to people who play online rpg's for countless hours on end....their reality is that particular game where they can 'live'. Even though it may not be seen as a reality for the majority of people, just one person is to believe in something makes it a reality for  that person....just like a imaginary friend.


totally agree with you about feeling alone! sometimes there is a feeling of disconnection when in a group - most people feel this, but are able to ignore it. Sometimes it gets that hard that we really do feel totally socially isolated! And some of us (who think WAY too much lol) feel like our own thoughts and our own minds are the only thing thats real. But there is hope! Just take this slightly complex idea:

When we think about things, in our heads, there is usually this little voice or there is some form of way the mind communicates words. Basically, we think in words and in a certain language lol. For most of us here, that language is most probably English. In order to learn a language, we have to learn it from the external world - from teachers, and our parents. For this learning process to be possible, and for the words to mean anything at all, there must be a public social understanding. Meaning, my understanding of the word red, comes from the general understanding of the word red. SO, it follows that other minds, and other people must also exist, and have minds too ^^ - if they didn't then it would not be possible for me to have a meaningful conversation, because I would not be equipped with the correct language skills to communicate. There is no such thing as a "private" language, that only we understand ourselves (unless of course you make one up hehe). But even a made up language is derived from sounds that we make when we talk in usual languages.
i think i "lost myself" at some point, but i am back on track now! hehe.


about the reality thing lol - i reckon its like i said before:

emotions, desires and thoughts are all definitely real - even when we hallucinate, that perception exists (albeit in the hallucinatee's mind). When I say real, i mean that they do in fact exist! It's like a dream, when i feel pain in a dream, that feeling is real (even if its only in that moment, it exists in that moment). If i experience heart-break, that feeling exists and i feel it my heart straining, even tho no-one else can see it.

QUOTE (fourier @ Sep 10 2007, 02:39 AM)
I agreed with Hobbes, everything is simply energy and particles (or just strings, if that turns out to be true) interacting and they happen to form these patterns that we've named. Things like stars, planets, elements, heat, you name it. I agreed with that, until I thought about consciousness. There's a couple possibilities for it. I could be the only conscious being in the universe, which really is centered around me. I have absolutely no way to know that this is wrong. Other people say that they have a consciousness, but that could just be the result of weird electrochemical(?) reactions in the brain. It could be that consciousness is really something special, and that life is in fact something more than just a really, really, really complicated chemical reaction. Once again, I can't disprove this, because if it really is just a "spirit" thing, there might not be an afterlife, and I'll just disappear into a void. There is also the possibility that consciousness is just an illusion created by the brain. This would be hard to understand, but seeing as how the brain is really complicated, and humans are far from understanding everything about the laws of the universe, it's still quite possible.

I dunno man, but it keeps me up at night. Wait, no, that's the homework...

I wonder if people who had a heart attack or something, and were basically dead for a few minutes before being revived by those shock paddles, still experience consciousness. If they don't, I'd think life was a pretty special thing, and I'd take it a lot more seriously and treat it with more respect. If they do, then it's just another chemical reaction, and there really isn't anything special about us...


the brain is indeed a fascinating and complex structure. You may or may not already know some of this stuff, but there is the idea of emergent consciousness because of the complexity of the processes in the brain. Basically, the brain is so complex, that consciousness just sort of happens lol. Its like how water molecules on their own just dont do anything, and have like no properties, but when together they have the fluidity that we observe every time we turn the tap on! This is a nice idea, but there are others too! There is the idea of a soul - the religious idea that there is a physical body and a spiritual essence (soul or mind as it is sometimes called). In this idea, the body dies and the soul moves onto to live an eternal afterlife (i like this idea hehe). There is also the idea that the brain is just one machine, a biological machine that has loads of chemical reactions that gives the appearance of something more. (I dont like this idea - it makes things seem very bleak and physical!) Being someone who thinks that the spiritiual side of life is very much existent and alive, i feel that the mind is something quite separate from the body, and when someone goes into cardiac arrest, and they are revived, I think they lack consciousness (i.e. they are unconscious because the brain is not functioning correctly) but I feel that their soul still remains, giving the body a chance to revive and start working again. It's like how when people have those "out-of-bed" experiences when they are being revived. Some claim that they see themselves lying on the bed whilst the doctors try and revive them! So, basically, there are two ways to interpret that - 1. its the chemicals in the brain being released as the brain shuts down causing hallucinations or 2. it is the soul, waiting outside the body, to see if the body will be revived. If the body doesnt get revived, then the soul moves on!

hehe
(sorry if i repeated some of the stuff you said fourier >.<)
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#28 samthebear

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:20 AM

QUOTE (outl-w_monsum @ Sep 10 2007, 08:04 PM)
totally agree with you about feeling alone! sometimes there is a feeling of disconnection when in a group - most people feel this, but are able to ignore it. Sometimes it gets that hard that we really do feel totally socially isolated! And some of us (who think WAY too much lol) feel like our own thoughts and our own minds are the only thing thats real.

glad to know i'm not the only person who feels this from time to time! but its not just the feeling of isolation >.< there is also a certain element of feeling like you are in a dream world - a different reality >.< freaks me out so much... happens most often when i'm alone at night and like everything is quiet...
i told my mother about it and she was like 'nup, never had it before.' then i go off and wonder if i'm some kinda freak... >.< its strange tho, because i really think that 'reality' is different for everyone. like people hallucinating, it's reality to them but not to anyone else >.< or like a dream that is very strong and you can still remember it when you wake up... those to me are all kinds of reality. i dont know why some people insist that there is only ONE reality - which is the physical world that can be observed by many other people. i mean i'm having one reality right now on this fourm - its not really tangable, i cant take this fourm and hold it or touch it. i can only see and interact with it and others using this fourm through a screen.

so reality is really a multitude of things!
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#29 mibukyo

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 03:56 AM

thats very true....dreams can also form our reality....dreams are often thoughts that leak out of our subconscious heart....they are your desires/hopes that you would accomplish if you weren't bound by laws. but i remember reading something about dreams and that they are actual alternate realities of our other lives, but i don't believe that there is another me in some parallel universe and that my spirit leaves my body and follows him around........but thats just me....im not too sure about how that actually works. And thats pretty much it....reality is formed by anything and everything that contributes to a daily actions, our inspirations and our hopes and dreams.....
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#30 samthebear

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 05:50 AM

QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 11 2007, 01:56 PM)
thats very true....dreams can also form our reality....dreams are often thoughts that leak out of our subconscious heart....they are your desires/hopes that you would accomplish if you weren't bound by laws. but i remember reading something about dreams and that they are actual alternate realities of our other lives, but i don't believe that there is another me in some parallel universe and that my spirit leaves my body and follows him around........but thats just me....im not too sure about how that actually works. And thats pretty much it....reality is formed by anything and everything that contributes to a daily actions, our inspirations and our hopes and dreams.....

the idea that our dreams are actually other alternate realities of our lives is actually possible... because for me i dont think time travels in the straight line >.< think about it this way - it is say the 9th of step. 2007 10AM for you. for another person on the other side of the world it may be the 8th of sept. 2007 3AM for them. so in that sense, you can go back in time >.< hence time is not a straight line. so if time doesnt travel in a straight line then whats to say alternate realities can exist?
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#31 mibukyo

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 06:45 AM

lolz .... does anyone know a time traveler or parallel world jumper??......coz thats gonna be a bit scary especially if you dream what i dreamt....*sigh*....im definitely going to burn in hell =D in that life!
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#32 outl-w_monsum

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 07:35 AM

QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
lolz .... does anyone know a time traveler or parallel world jumper??......coz thats gonna be a bit scary especially if you dream what i dreamt....*sigh*....im definitely going to burn in hell =D in that life!

LOL!

Well, I am gonna have to agree partially with our little bear friend, because when I dream, sometimes I can't find the links with when I am awake - my dreams can sometimes be SO different from things when I am awake, that it is as if I am living out another life somewhere else, in a different time. There is always the theory of multiple universes to look towards, in order to help explain this and if you combine the idea of a soul or spirit (which would be free to roam from universe to universe) it can be conceived that this idea is feasible.

Generally speaking though, I find that most dreams, are in fact simply elaborate reflections of things that are going on in waking life. For instance, if you are feeling very anxious about something, then your dream might consist of events that mirror that anxiousness in a more vivid way!

QUOTE (samthebear @ Sep 10 2007, 11:50 PM)
QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 11 2007, 01:56 PM) thats very true....dreams can also form our reality....dreams are often thoughts that leak out of our subconscious heart....they are your desires/hopes that you would accomplish if you weren't bound by laws. but i remember reading something about dreams and that they are actual alternate realities of our other lives, but i don't believe that there is another me in some parallel universe and that my spirit leaves my body and follows him around........but thats just me....im not too sure about how that actually works. And thats pretty much it....reality is formed by anything and everything that contributes to a daily actions, our inspirations and our hopes and dreams..... 
the idea that our dreams are actually other alternate realities of our lives is actually possible... because for me i dont think time travels in the straight line >.< think about it this way - it is say the 9th of step. 2007 10AM for you. for another person on the other side of the world it may be the 8th of sept. 2007 3AM for them. so in that sense, you can go back in time >.< hence time is not a straight line. so if time doesnt travel in a straight line then whats to say alternate realities can exist?


In the sense of time you speak of, it is possible to go back in time - but at the same time its not really time travel. The time-zone differences that we use are artificial. The "arrow of time" as it is called by Newtonian scientists, is straight, and is irrespective of the position of the Earth around the Sun. The times that we use on Earth is relative to the position of the Earth around the Sun. Sooo, its not really time-travel hehe. It's just going to a place where the Sun hasn't risen yet =P

But yeah, in a sense it is time travel - but its not like proper time-travel.

I think that time travels in branches - where there is a possibility of more than one event in a given circumstance, i feel that the universe splits into two or three (depending on the number of possibilities) routes. This continues and the universe we are in presently is the result of one of these chains. Soooo, if we were able to go back in time, I think that the events of the future would play out very differently.
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#33 mibukyo

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 08:05 AM

lol...so now we are reaching the point where the universe is a multiverse and within these multiverses are alternative actions that we could of made, right?.....gee....that just frieds my brains~! tongue.gif now that we are on the subject of dreams, does anyone deem it possible to have a premonition of the future?....i personnally think thats possible with the odd de ja vu happening every now and then....and it also seems that i'm not alone in this belief. But because of that, now i feel freakish like a monster or something because not everyone has these premonitions or de ja vu's.......so does that mean that our lives today are predestined in that we cannot change a certain course of action because if we do, the universe will ultimately balance the equation with dire consequences? it just reminds me of the movie "time machine" in that no matter what the guy did to save his wife/gf....she was fated to die.......so if im predestined.....well.......my futures dont look to bright!!
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#34 samthebear

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 11 2007, 06:05 PM)
lol...so now we are reaching the point where the universe is a multiverse and within these multiverses are alternative actions that we could of made, right?.....gee....that just frieds my brains~! tongue.gif now that we are on the subject of dreams, does anyone deem it possible to have a premonition of the future?....i personnally think thats possible with the odd de ja vu happening every now and then....and it also seems that i'm not alone in this belief. But because of that, now i feel freakish like a monster or something because not everyone has these premonitions or de ja vu's.......so does that mean that our lives today are predestined in that we cannot change a certain course of action because if we do, the universe will ultimately balance the equation with dire consequences? it just reminds me of the movie "time machine" in that no matter what the guy did to save his wife/gf....she was fated to die.......so if im predestined.....well.......my futures dont look to bright!!

lol, its just a theory or idea to entertain one self with ^^ you dont have to believe it if you find the prospect too bleak to face - there are somethings that you can change by believing or disbelieving. of course all these ideas and theories floating around in this tread is just pure speculation and personal feelings on the subject of 'reality' so why do you have to accept one person's idea of reality just because the majority concur?
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#35 outl-w_monsum

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 11 2007, 02:05 AM)
lol...so now we are reaching the point where the universe is a multiverse and within these multiverses are alternative actions that we could of made, right?.....gee....that just frieds my brains~! tongue.gif now that we are on the subject of dreams, does anyone deem it possible to have a premonition of the future?....i personnally think thats possible with the odd de ja vu happening every now and then....and it also seems that i'm not alone in this belief. But because of that, now i feel freakish like a monster or something because not everyone has these premonitions or de ja vu's.......so does that mean that our lives today are predestined in that we cannot change a certain course of action because if we do, the universe will ultimately balance the equation with dire consequences? it just reminds me of the movie "time machine" in that no matter what the guy did to save his wife/gf....she was fated to die.......so if im predestined.....well.......my futures dont look to bright!!

omg! i know exactly what you mean about the de ja vu thing! Its like you have a dream where things happen (pretty mundane ordinary things) and then they happen in real life sometime (even months later)!
i dunno whether there is something more to it than just my brain confusing things. De ja vu is sometimes explained as the brain losing control of its sense of time, so something happens, and then the brain goes a bit weird and thinks it happened before. lol
but yeah - who knows! hehe

|If the future is already pre-ordained then so be it - we shouldnt let it get to us and we should just live our lives as we do.

QUOTE (samthebear @ Sep 15 2007, 05:02 AM)
QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 11 2007, 06:05 PM) lol...so now we are reaching the point where the universe is a multiverse and within these multiverses are alternative actions that we could of made, right?.....gee....that just frieds my brains~!  now that we are on the subject of dreams, does anyone deem it possible to have a premonition of the future?....i personnally think thats possible with the odd de ja vu happening every now and then....and it also seems that i'm not alone in this belief. But because of that, now i feel freakish like a monster or something because not everyone has these premonitions or de ja vu's.......so does that mean that our lives today are predestined in that we cannot change a certain course of action because if we do, the universe will ultimately balance the equation with dire consequences? it just reminds me of the movie "time machine" in that no matter what the guy did to save his wife/gf....she was fated to die.......so if im predestined.....well.......my futures dont look to bright!! 
lol, its just a theory or idea to entertain one self with ^^ you dont have to believe it if you find the prospect too bleak to face - there are somethings that you can change by believing or disbelieving. of course all these ideas and theories floating around in this tread is just pure speculation and personal feelings on the subject of 'reality' so why do you have to accept one person's idea of reality just because the majority concur?


lol - sometimes its best to "go with the flow" so to speak because otherwise some people may put a label on you with "CRAZY" written on it XDDD

but yeah bear-chan - u have a good point. You should have your own views, and not just follow the crowd ALL the time. Just be sure that whatever you decide to take as your viewpoint, is something that you can explain and make others understand, otherwise they will label you as being a bit odd hehe.

Personally, I feel quite certain that I will never understand the nature of reality. I might act like I believe certain things but at the same time I always have those thoughts floating in my head just as they are floating on this forum lol.
Love lives long
Death drowns dreams, Sorrow sings songs, Failure frees futures,
Hate hates hatefully.

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#36 mibukyo

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 04:39 AM

hahaha...thank outl-w_monsum.....atleast now i know im not alone.....so now there are more monsters out there!!! hahaha ah well.....now im starting to wish this was really the matrix....but its scary sometimes....for us as humans to have a vision of the future or in this case to dream of the future aka De ja Vu, we would need to know the exact position of every atom in the whole universe....now im not a genuis or anything but frankly...it just sounds too far fetched to believe that somehow humans are able to comprehend anything and everything in the universe...whats worse is that not everyone has De Ja Vu making me sound like a freak since i didnt hear that anyone else had de ja vu until now so that atleast gives me some relief *phew*

hahahaha....good point, the last thing i need right now is the paramedics after me because they think i'm a fruit loop XD

thats a good point outl-w_monsum, there might not be an exact definition of reality and i guess wen it comes down to it, our decisions are based on everything going on at that moment.

XD ....im CrAzY lolz
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#37 outl-w_monsum

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 06:40 AM

QUOTE (mibukyo @ Sep 15 2007, 10:39 PM)
hahaha...thank outl-w_monsum.....atleast now i know im not alone.....so now there are more monsters out there!!! hahaha ah well.....now im starting to wish this was really the matrix....but its scary sometimes....for us as humans to have a vision of the future or in this case to dream of the future aka De ja Vu, we would need to know the exact position of every atom in the whole universe....now im not a genuis or anything but frankly...it just sounds too far fetched to believe that somehow humans are able to comprehend anything and everything in the universe...whats worse is that not everyone has De Ja Vu making me sound like a freak since i didnt hear that anyone else had de ja vu until now so that atleast gives me some relief *phew*

hahahaha....good point, the last thing i need right now is the paramedics after me because they think i'm a fruit loop XD

thats a good point outl-w_monsum, there might not be an exact definition of reality and i guess wen it comes down to it, our decisions are based on everything going on at that moment.

XD ....im CrAzY lolz

ure not crazy hehe - just extra-thoughtful!
think about girls instead =P
and ure welcome!
Love lives long
Death drowns dreams, Sorrow sings songs, Failure frees futures,
Hate hates hatefully.

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Despair deepens darkness, Hope heats hearts.
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#38 mibukyo

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 09:18 AM

lol hahah....now that you put it like that.....*stares into empty space and drools*
"I'm not being rude, you're just insignificant"

"Sometimes, to win against a lesser evil, a greater evil must be born"

#39 EggBeast

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 09:09 AM

Reality is far too vague to define. You need to define what is real, how it is real, what it means to exists, all kinds of philosophical nonsense.

We have no way of knowing if we're all part of some little girl's (or some house cat's) dream, if there's some divine, all knowing, all powerful, all-being entity who made some ants to play with, if our human senses are incapable of revealing what is real to us, if we're dreaming ourselves, if we're some strange fluctuation of some relatively enormous magnetic wave, or what. And there's absolutely NOTHING that can change that fact.

All we can do is make what we will of what we are, where we are, where we're going, and why we're going there.

One interesting way to look at it, however, is to go along with Einstein's theory of relativity. There is absolutely no way to determine whether it's you driving your car 60 miles an hour, or whether the entirety of the universe in moving 60 miles an hours against you while you're staying in place, in the end, they both mean the same thing. If you think of reality in the same way, well, you see that reality is truly what you make of it, what anyone makes of it. We can never know if there is one definite version of reality, because no one has ever been able to, nor will every be able to, define it.

Dang, isn't self-awareness just the pits? It's a beautiful thing, though.
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#40 outl-w_monsum

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 10:22 AM

QUOTE (EggBeast @ Nov 08 2007, 03:09 AM)
Reality is far too vague to define.  You need to define what is real, how it is real, what it means to exists, all kinds of philosophical nonsense.

We have no way of knowing if we're all part of some little girl's (or some house cat's) dream, if there's some divine, all knowing, all powerful, all-being entity who made some ants to play with, if our human senses are incapable of revealing what is real to us, if we're dreaming ourselves, if we're some strange fluctuation of some relatively enormous magnetic wave, or what.  And there's absolutely NOTHING that can change that fact.

All we can do is make what we will of what we are, where we are, where we're going, and why we're going there.

One interesting way to look at it, however, is to go along with Einstein's theory of relativity.  There is absolutely no way to determine whether it's you driving your car 60 miles an hour, or whether the entirety of the universe in moving 60 miles an hours against you while you're staying in place, in the end, they both mean the same thing.  If you think of reality in the same way, well, you see that reality is truly what you make of it, what anyone makes of it.  We can never know if there is one definite version of reality, because no one has ever been able to, nor will every be able to, define it.

Dang, isn't self-awareness just the pits?  It's a beautiful thing, though.

Man, you truly are an intelligent being. Look at the word "reality" from a linguistic point of view.

The word "reality" is definied as:

"world: all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in different worlds"; "for them demons ..."

So basically, what you have said, about the idea of relativity is pretty accurate. Nonetheless, I could divulge and shatter your analogy with a scientific idea by shattering the grounds of science completely thereby nullifying your idea - thereby showing that nothing is real or something ridiculous like that. But I just woke up and my brain isn't working properly yet....... >.<

But seriously - nice analogy!
Love lives long
Death drowns dreams, Sorrow sings songs, Failure frees futures,
Hate hates hatefully.

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Despair deepens darkness, Hope heats hearts.
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