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Threads Per Season Debate


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#1 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:22 PM

Mod note: This thread was split from this thread.

You know Wolfie there was really no need for a new thread, totally wasted space, time and everything else from you. Just like with Zero no Tsukaima.

Edited by Maiku_Ando, 11 January 2012 - 12:11 AM.

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#2 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:46 PM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Jan 10 2012, 02:22 PM)
You know Wolfie there was really no need for a new thread, totally wasted space, time and everything else from you. Just like with Zero no Tsukaima.

If this series had the same name and had the season 2 deal after it I would agree with you on that, but since it's not it gets a new thread.

The same can be said about the Louise thread since that was talking all about season 3 and not season 4. sleep.gif
I mean if that was the case you almost make it sound like for the Louise thread we should of just combined the prior 3 seasons along with this season as well, but that would or could put off people wanting to talk about the latest epsidoe or season since they picked that one up over 5 years or more though.

In any case I'm only doing it since I'm sure that some people would want a thread for the new season, so I try my best in making one. wink.gif

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#3 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:08 PM

For each franchise there should be only one thread. Everything more is totally wasted space, time and everything else. The threadlist in this forum is already long enough without dividing the franchises in different paths.
The way you tell it maybe we should do the same like on MAL each ep a new thread.
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#4 julez

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:13 PM

Well I can see why Wolfie would make a new thread for this show since it has a different name. However we could merge the two and call it the "Monogatari series" instead, that's what animesuki did. I think we should decide whether or not we should make new threads for each new season of shows or stick to the original one... I've seen both approaches on this forum, so I don't know.




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#5 warita200

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:55 PM

I have to side with Killer on this and say, that making a thread for every season is redundant, especially if the tread wont outgrow 4 pages as it is recently so.

Instead of creating a new thread, we could merge the threads as Julezia suggested. In the case of Zero no Tsukaima 3 thread, we could rename it to Zero no Tsukaima 1,2,3 and 4.

Also, Wolfie you have the tendency to ask, if we want this or that and you expect a positive answer and when somebody says: "well, actually we dont need this" or "we better not do this", you still do as you originally intended to do. I wonder whats the point of asking then?

Please dont take this what I said as an unfriendly act against you. It isnt meant to hurt your feelings or attack you in any way, ok? wink.gif


#6 Ausdoerrt

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:16 PM

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#7 wedora

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:28 PM

I strongly disagree that there shouldn't be separate threads for separate series. I come here and look up old series by title name to pull up that series and that series alone, and don't want to read into a following season on accident while getting others impressions or seeing how others reacted to a pivotal point. Nisemonogatari can and will be watched by few as stand-alone and then bakemonogatari followed on, and they shouldn't be arsed to find a thread mid-point, or not find it at all because the title doesn't match their ctrl+f on a lengthy list of search results (given that the threads with any mention of it pop up). Add on top of it that the series overviews link to a specific thread and you get spoiled on the next season by accidentally scrolling down while looking for the first one on the main site. There are many good reasons for this approach beyond page count per series.

Lastly, getting into a divisive discussion over something so insignificant is rediculous. Whether or not that was intended, warita, that's the way it comes across to a third-person observer such as myself. It makes for a very uninviting atmosphere, far more detrimental than low pages per thread.

Aaaand I think I'm done venting over that. I needed to get it out there as I've felt I need to walk on eggshells lately and its been getting on my nerves.
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#8 warita200

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:33 PM

Alright I appologize. I didnt mean to, thats why I wrote that it isnt meant to attac. At the same time, it creates an uninviting atmosphere to be completely ignored, dont you think? Especially when opinion was asked.

I see your points wedora... I didnt look at it from that perspective and you might be right.

#9 monsta

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:17 PM

QUOTE (wedora @ Jan 10 2012, 11:28 PM)
Lastly, getting into a divisive discussion over something so insignificant is ridiculous. Whether or not that was intended, warita, that's the way it comes across to a third-person observer such as myself.  It makes for a very uninviting atmosphere, far more detrimental than low pages per thread.

Well I am not sure it is so insignificant to debate this point. I mean, okay it is not the most important issue ever but if a number of posters stated their preferences in quick succession then perhaps the issue is not so insignficant. You say people are overreacting but judging by your tone and use of language I could raise the very same point about you. At the end of the day it is a forum and people can discuss stuff. So I see no bones about this provided it is done within reason and go on and on about for pages and pages.

I think - in my opinion - the most important point to bare in mind, regardless of the reasons stated above is who follows and posts in these threads. I know it can be awkward for newcomers or other people but let us be honest here. Who are the people who follow and post in this forum? It is all old-timers, I mean if you want proof check out the number of posts made by sempais and team members in the threads of FTV. This thread does not contain a single kouhais post. Now don't get me wrong, I am general fan of maintaining the current rule of one thread for every season but at the end of the day I think the best action is to go with the consensus vote.

I think at this point, the best course of action is to cater the structure/layout of the threads to the preferences of the regular posters and not worry so much if we inconvenience a few potential newcomers who might be put off. I know it may not sound great but we really do need to consider the people who are driving this forum.

In any case if anyone wants to debate this point further I can make a post in the voice of change section. That way we don't derail this thread even more. If people would prefer to talk about this issue in private then I am also willing to answer pms.

#10 Ryu

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:53 PM

QUOTE (monsta666 @ Jan 10 2012, 06:17 PM)
In any case if anyone wants to debate this point further I can make a post in the voice of change section. That way we don't derail this thread even more. If people would prefer to talk about this issue in private then I am also willing to answer pms.

I agree with most points and opinions that you, warita and ossie already posted so there isn't much I have to add as I don't want to derail this thread even more either... also there are way longer topics like haruhi or higurashi that didn't need separate threads so I think there is no need to make a new one each season at least for 12-13 or 24-26 eps series, I was thinking about a good solution so monsta do you know if in this kind of forums the threads can be merged (or splited if a very long thread needs to be separated)? unsure.gif
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#11 Maiku_Ando

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:17 AM

Ok thank you very much Killer_Ossi et-al who decided to go waaaay off-topic in the animes section and make me waste my time picking out the posts 1 by 1 to move here.

Now on to the issue at hand....

Not much interested in the debate, I'll just say this:

The FTV site splits anime seasons up into different 'animes' as per the animes section, meaning each season gets its own entry. As such, each one of those entiries can support a forum thread, therefore there is no problem with a new thread per season.

Furthermore, think about spoilers. If you go into season 1 and read too much, you might get hit with season 2 or 3 discussion, thats bad. Split threads avoid this.

So therefore, I think we're good to stay with the 1 thread per season system.

#12 daft27

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:18 AM

QUOTE (Maiku_Ando @ Jan 10 2012, 08:17 PM)
The FTV site splits anime seasons up into different 'animes' as per the animes section, meaning each season gets its own entry. As such, each one of those entiries can support a forum thread, therefore there is no problem with a new thread per season.

Furthermore, think about spoilers. If you go into season 1 and read too much, you might get hit with season 2 or 3 discussion, thats bad. Split threads avoid this.

So therefore, I think we're good to stay with the 1 thread per season system.

+1

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#13 monsta

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:28 AM

QUOTE (NecroRyu @ Jan 11 2012, 12:53 AM)
I agree with most points and opinions that you, warita and ossie already posted so there isn't much I have to add as I don't want to derail this thread even more either... also there are way longer topics like haruhi or higurashi that didn't need separate threads so I think there is no need to make a new one each season at least for 12-13 or 24-26 eps series, I was thinking about a good solution so monsta do you know if in this kind of forums the threads can be merged (or splited if a very long thread needs to be separated)? unsure.gif

Threads can be split or merged (as seen just now!) depending on what the moderator wants. I suppose with enough votes we could even consider re-ordering the anime section so it only displays current seasons while the older series are put in an archive section for reference. That action would need the vote of various members to get through however as it is not so easy to implement and even then there can be no guarantees.

I suppose with the archive idea, that could lead to a compromise situation were a new season has its own thread but when that new season is finished it is merged into the old thread in the anime archive section. Not sure if anyone would be up for that, it is a bit out there. But the main point is I am willing to listen to peoples' suggestions and if enough people vote on an issue then we can seriously consider a plan of action.

#14 warita200

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:40 AM

QUOTE (monsta666 @ Jan 10 2012, 06:28 PM)

I suppose with the archive idea, that could lead to a compromise situation were a new season has its own thread but when that new season is finished it is merged into the old thread in the anime archive section. Not sure if anyone would be up for that, it is a bit out there. But the main point is I am willing to listen to peoples' suggestions and if enough people vote on an issue then we can seriously consider a plan of action.

That is actually I was thinking about myself!!!! Sounds good to me.

#15 Maiku_Ando

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:43 AM

QUOTE (monsta666 @ Jan 11 2012, 12:28 AM)
Threads can be split or merged (as seen just now!) depending on what the moderator wants. I suppose with enough votes we could even consider re-ordering the anime section so it only displays current seasons while the older series are put in an archive section for reference. That action would need the vote of various members to get through however as it is not so easy to implement and even then there can be no guarantees.

I suppose with the archive idea, that could lead to a compromise situation were a new season has its own thread but when that new season is finished it is merged into the old thread in the anime archive section. Not sure if anyone would be up for that, it is a bit out there. But the main point is I am willing to listen to peoples' suggestions and if enough people vote on an issue then we can seriously consider a plan of action.

This would really not be a good idea from 2 directions:

On the technical side, the forum merges/splits threads and maintains the posting date and time. Notice on this thread the first post had to be edited for the mod note - because any post I add would be put at the end - in date / time order.

If you have concurrent threads running over a period of time for say 3 seasons, when they are merged, it would add in the posts in date/time order and totaly distort the conversation, making it almost impossable to read the resulting mega thread.

From the non-technical side, it would mean people would have to look in two places to find dicussion on an anime, I don't see how theres a benefit by doing that, given it will create confusion when trying to find a series thread. Also, someone ie a mod will have to do all the splitting, merging and moving each season, I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not doing it smile.gif

#16 monsta

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 01:14 AM

QUOTE (Maiku_Ando @ Jan 11 2012, 01:43 AM)
From the non-technical side, it would mean people would have to look in two places to find dicussion on an anime, I don't see how theres a benefit by doing that, given it will create confusion when trying to find a series thread. Also, someone ie a mod will have to do all the splitting, merging and moving each season, I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not doing it smile.gif

I would be willing to move the threads if need be and could enlist the help of others. It is all really dependant on how many people want this to go through. That's why I feel the big issue is who wants it. I am willing to do the donkey work of implementing this idea PROVIDED people actually want it and are not just saying it.

QUOTE (Maiku_Ando)
On the technical side, the forum merges/splits threads and maintains the posting date and time. Notice on this thread the first post had to be edited for the mod note - because any post I add would be put at the end - in date / time order.

If you have concurrent threads running over a period of time for say 3 seasons, when they are merged, it would add in the posts in date/time order and totaly distort the conversation, making it almost impossable to read the resulting mega thread.

As for the technical ordering issue that can also be resolved and done without creating too much disorder. If a season ends we let one month pass (this time period could be debated) and then put it into the archive section after which the thread is locked. Anime threads in the archive section are locked so they are only meant to be viewed and not posted on. That way there are no technical issues with posts going into disorder should they be merged.

If a new season is confirmed then a new thread is made and that goes in the current anime section. New season threads can be made even if the season has not started yet. I think that is the logical solution to this technical problem. This solution also prevents random people reviving old anime threads with meaningless posts which I think acts as a hindrance to many posters. Although saying that we could debate if this is an actual hindrance or a service when a old anime thread is revived by an old poster. My take is if there genuine news on a anime thread either it is posted in the general anime thread or a new thread is opened in the current section but this is only done if a new season is confirmed to come out. That is my workaround for the problem you suggested.

#17 Maiku_Ando

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 01:57 AM

QUOTE (monsta666 @ Jan 11 2012, 01:14 AM)
As for the technical ordering issue that can also be resolved and done without creating too much disorder. If a season ends we let one month pass (this time period could be debated) and then put it into the archive section after which the thread is locked. Anime threads in the archive section are locked so they are only meant to be viewed and not posted on. That way there are no technical issues with posts going into disorder should they be merged.

If a new season is confirmed then a new thread is made and that goes in the current anime section. New season threads can be made even if the season has not started yet. I think that is the logical solution to this technical problem. This solution also prevents random people reviving old anime threads with meaningless posts which I think acts as a hindrance to many posters. Although saying that we could debate if this is an actual hindrance or a service when a old anime thread is revived by an old poster. My take is if there genuine news on a anime thread either it is posted in the general anime thread or a new thread is opened in the current section but this is only done if a new season is confirmed to come out. That is my workaround for the problem you suggested.

This would require that:

1) All threads for a past season be locked before the next season starts.
2) There be no further discussion of a season after it has aired.

This is my opinion as a normal person, not as an FTV leader, but that is really not something I'd ever want to see.

If I watch a series, be it old or new and I want to discuss it, I should be able to, is that not the point of an anime community? Then why close discussion of a season because its no longer current? Do people stop thinking about it after the last episode airs? is it any less relevant to the story after it ends?

And you didn't answer the obvious question... what benefit would this have? I personally believe that preventing people discussing the anime they like is not a good thing, and is counter productive, and counter the whole point of FTV.

#18 Ausdoerrt

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 03:12 AM

I think new thread per season is perfectly logical and acceptable. It's not like we're going to run out of space on the forums or anything because of a few extra threads. Plus, it creates a semblance of forum activity biggrin.gif

Exception, I guess, would be sequels that continue to number eps, for example Fate/Zero S2 in April probably will.
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#19 daft27

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:14 AM

QUOTE (wedora @ Jan 10 2012, 06:28 PM)
I strongly disagree that there shouldn't be separate threads for separate series.  I come here and look up old series by title name to pull up that series and that series alone, and don't want to read into a following season on accident while getting others impressions or seeing how others reacted to a pivotal point.  Nisemonogatari can and will be watched by few as stand-alone and then bakemonogatari followed on, and they shouldn't be arsed to find a thread mid-point, or not find it at all because the title doesn't match their ctrl+f on a lengthy list of search results (given that the threads with any mention of it pop up).  Add on top of it that the series overviews link to a specific thread and you get spoiled on the next season by accidentally scrolling down while looking for the first one on the main site.  There are many good reasons for this approach beyond page count per series. 

Lastly, getting into a divisive discussion over something so insignificant is rediculous.  Whether or not that was intended, warita, that's the way it comes across to a third-person observer such as myself.  It makes for a very uninviting atmosphere, far more detrimental than low pages per thread.

Aaaand I think I'm done venting over that.  I needed to get it out there as I've felt I need to walk on eggshells lately and its been getting on my nerves.
+1
QUOTE (Ausdoerrt @ Jan 10 2012, 11:12 PM)
I think new thread per season is perfectly logical and acceptable. It's not like we're going to run out of space on the forums or anything because of a few extra threads. Plus, it creates a semblance of forum activity

Exception, I guess, would be sequels that continue to number eps, for example Fate/Zero S2 in April probably will.
+1


I know this isn't known to many of you, so let me share this with you: The forum is here to support the main website, which receives about 90% of the regular traffic. A vast majority of visitors will never visit the forums, but might spend the time read the posts shown on the series overview pages.

With that in mind, implementing some of the new ideas suggested requires a re-engineering of the main website, and so far I haven't heard much indicating how these changes might improve the user experience of the actual typical user enough to warrant the risk and resources involved. I'm open to new ideas, but I feel like a lot of people are being forgotten here.

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#20 noob

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 07:18 AM

QUOTE (Ausdoerrt @ Jan 10 2012, 09:12 PM)
I think new thread per season is perfectly logical and acceptable. It's not like we're going to run out of space on the forums or anything because of a few extra threads. Plus, it creates a semblance of forum activity biggrin.gif

Exception, I guess, would be sequels that continue to number eps, for example Fate/Zero S2 in April probably will.

I disagree. I believe that it would be more logical for more popular series to get a new thread per season, even if they are sequels. If they are of the lesser popular series, they are least likely to attract much of attention even if there is/are additional thread(s) available and dedicated to them. But what you and I have stated, are merely our personal opinions on this subject matter.



Daft; if you could kindly improve your already existing FTV bot to create "official" threads from this point forth and link such threads to the corresponding anime series available on the website, that would make things a lot smoother.

I would imagine that the first post would contain the information about the series (synopsis/summary/pictures/related stuff).

Additionally, to make such method compatible with the current version, you may have to provide capability to users to upload a "review video file" ( for Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou would be a good example) when they are creating a new thread in the anime section.

Additional security features/restrictions may have to be implemented for this system to function properly. Such as, not allowing members with less than certain amount of posts to make threads (to avoid spamming) AND OR enforcing similar rules as the ones in "Anime Related Projects" (a thread must be approved by a moderator before being displayed/posted on the forums), etc.

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