N. Korea warns of nuclear war

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North Korea warns of nuclear war. what do you guys think of this issue???

i was curious about korea for sometime now, but what made me more curious is when after watching that kdrama cain and abel. there was a part there where n. koreans hunt (northern korean) refugees who fled to china. and when they got caught they were sent to this prison... and i though, is this for real. so i went to check on wiki more about north korea. and its not good at all. they say that place is like a total dictatorship.

im not really into politic news (i know its sad), but its really bad there. the president over there is the son of the late president, and guess who's gonna be the next president after that??? yep the current president's son.

and from how the situation looks like, who knows what n. korea will do. they already have 2 US journalist in prisoned (cant imagine how they can survive the prison there - hard labor...)

when i was reading this news, it reminded me of the atomic bomb incident.

anyways i hope it wont happen. too much war going on....with the bad economy and all. not good~

QUOTE
im not really into politic news (i know its sad), but its really bad there. the president over there is the son of the late president, and guess who's gonna be the next president after that??? yep the current president's son.

And everybody knows that a president's son becoming president is a sure proof of dictatorship.


QUOTE
anyways i hope it wont happen. too much war going on....with the bad economy and all. not good~

The Korean war is indeed one the most likely to become nuclear (with the India/Pakistan imho), but it's nonetheless not that likely.

As far as I know, North Korea has several reasons to keep looking crazy and threatening, but few to actually attack South Korea.
And one the other hand, the USA, Japan and South Korea can't attack North Korea directly, because Seoul would be destroyed in a few hours (the city is within range of NK's artillery, and NK has A LOT of artilly on the border).

That's why we have the current stalemate, and that's probably why the stalemate will continue in a foreseeable future.

QUOTE anyways i hope it wont happen.  too much war going on....with the bad economy and all.  not good~
War is not necessarily bad for the economy, which is the implication I get from your comment. Remember, World War Two's outbreak was a factor in stopping the Great Depression. War creates jobs and creates the need of manufacturing wartime supplies.

It's not an ideal situation, obviously.


I don't have much background in Korean studies, so what I know comes from the perspective of other countries. But, as you indicated, North Korea is not in the best of states. Especially when China cut off its economic support - though, China doesn't want the regime to topple since it will have negative impacts (refugees, regional instability, war, etc). Actually, it's probably in everyone's best interests to keep the regime in tact. Japan has the fuzzy constitutional line of not being able to fight an offensive war, China doesn't appear willing to use its political leverage (it's official stance is not to intervene in the domestic affairs of other nations), and South Korea has the proximity to worry about. And obviously, it's not in North Korea's best interest to engage in war if the risks of the regime being defeated outweigh the risks of it winning - it may have nuclear weapons, but it's also surrounded by some powerful countries with American military support. And as mentioned, it's also cut off economically with more sanctions being imposed.


QUOTE and from how the situation looks like, who knows what n. korea will do. they already have 2 US journalist in prisoned (cant imagine how they can survive the prison there - hard labor...)
Personally, I feel this is partially unrelated to nuclear war. The major reason the kidnappings are suddenly getting so much coverage is the fact that they were Americans kidnapped and imprisoned. This isn't anything new - I know Japan has had incidents with random kidnappings (there's a semi-famous one of a fourteen year old girl abducted on her way to school, along with many other "random" targets) and I'm sure South Korea and China have their own stories. Of course, North Korea can use them as hostages which might be incentive to keep them alive. But they're not the first two people to go missing.

The problem, and the stalemate, date back a good fifty years. At this point, I would assume North Korea is just trying to use pressure tactics. It's hard to predict when you're dealing with something unstable.

QUOTE (Dalriada @ Jun 14 2009, 05:07 PM)
And everybody knows that a president's son becoming president is a sure proof of dictatorship. 
I think his point was more along the lines of the fact that the people have no choice in the matter. It is a given that leadership will be passed down in such a matter, and the citizens cannot vote, dethrone, or otherwise prevent such from happening.
The fact is that North Korea is a single party communist state; and further, even though they claim to be a socialist republic, they are regarded by the vast majority of the world to be a "de facto authoritarian/totalitarian Stalinist dictatorship."*

Regardless, I would agree with most of what's been said: North Korea can claim to have all the power in the world, but (even if they do) they are extremely unlikely to actually make use of such force. It is simply an empty threat held over everyone's heads to keep others from 'interfering' with them. Should N. Korea actually DO anything - such as starting an invasion of S. Korea or fire any Nuclear weaponry at a foreign nation the retaliation would be extreme. Most countries near N. Korea have very powerful allies who would not take kindly to such aggressive action...
And if they tried to fire at someone further away (say, they decide to try to throw a nuke over at the U.S. or one of her territories) who HAS power (U.S., any of the E.U. nations, etc) the attack would most likely fail and be followed by heavy retribution. I know that the U.S.'s anti-missile defense system (designed to protect the nation and it's territories from attack - specifically of a nuclear nature) is extremely strong. The U.S. also keeps a fleet of aircraft armed with nuclear bombs in the air 24/7, so should they be attacked, a counter-attack would be immediate...

Point is, don't let the press scare you and keep you up at night. Chances of anything happening are very low for various reasons.


*Several Sources; see Wikipedia for listings of them.

QUOTE I think his point was more along the lines of the fact that the people have no choice in the matter. It is a given that leadership will be passed down in such a matter, and the citizens cannot vote, dethrone, or otherwise prevent such from happening.

It's not that they can't oppose it, they don't want to oppose their "Dear Leader".


QUOTE Point is, don't let the press scare you and keep you up at night. Chances of anything happening are very low for various reasons.

If you're in the US that is. It's a different story for the neighboring countries where kidnappings actually happen. Keep your friends close, your enemies closer?

I'm quite concerned about the South and Japan which are two easy targets [anime and games, i stopped caring about people quite some time ago]. Kim Jong Il is a smart man, and he anticipated that his health may appear as a sign of weakness and thus started this aggressive tactic to keep everyone away while they fix their problems.

Reason will never work with the North.

QUOTE War is not necessarily bad for the economy, which is the implication I get from your comment. Remember, World War Two's outbreak was a factor in stopping the Great Depression. War creates jobs and creates the need of manufacturing wartime supplies.

The main reason why WWI and WWII were beneficial for North America is quite simple : the war wasn't on the north-american ground (except Pearl Harbour, but it's a detail on a macro-economical scale).

When you have a war on your own ground, it's true there's a surge at the end of the war. But's it's just like "Smash your head against a wall, you'll feel better when you stop".

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QUOTE
Reason will never work with the North.

I don't think I agree.
N. Korea may play mean, criminal and crazy, but it still acts like a rational actor.

My mistake, i meant reason will not create any "long-term solutions". Talks do little in disarming the North [if they actually have some] and i doubt it would solve the border/kidnapping problems.

Fight fire with fire i say, sanctions ought to work in the long run considering the fact that the North is dwindling in resources. Also, there's always the last resort of military action.

-EDITED-

North Korea's like a bully IRL. No matter how much you try to reason with him, it'll only serve to your disadvantage. He might even come back stronger. I'd say teach that friggin bully fear.

QUOTE Fight fire with fire i say, sanctions ought to work in the long run considering the fact that the North is dwindling in resources. Also, there's always the last resort of military action.

Sanctions ?
Don't forget the closest neighbour of N. Korea is China, who more or less supports the current government. I'm not saying China like it, but hey certainly don't want another pro-US puppet like S. Korea (see the number of US soldiers in S. Korea).
China is certainly not pushing to war, but won't act enforce a embargo against N. Korea, except if the latter crosses the borders.

And military action ?
you would provoke the destruction of Seoul in order to ... protect Seoul ?
What N.Korea is doing is fairly well known, and was/is the nuclear doctrine of France : the deterrence of the Strong by the Weak. The USA may kill 400 millions north koreans, if there was 400 millions of north koreans, but they will avoid that because N. Korea can kill 40 millions of S. Korea, an traditional ally of the USA (and the estimate of 40 millions dead is not a fantasy : Seoul is more populated than that, and it within range of the artillery).

Last time i heard on the news, China has been pleading the North to stop already since their aggressive stance isn't helping things to get better. China, unlike the North, is much more reasonable, thus i think sanctions imposed by them may not be out of the question. The North is lacking in natural resources AFAI remember. Though i acknowledge that driving them into a pinch is a double edged sword, either they'd give in or they'd fight back.

As for military action, it's a last resort as i said. Only an idiot would go around bombing the North out of the blue without any real reason. South Korea is in the danger zone and Seoul can be taken within hours, these are facts needed to be taken into priority.

And, yeah the deterrence of the strong by the weak, in other words Seoul/South Korea and Japan is/are a hostage(s). As i've said, Kim Jong Il is a smart man, not a madman.

another new threat again from n. korea

looks like theres no stopping to their nuclear missle program, no matter what anyone says... scary.

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I have been keeping an eye on this situation that is taking place. I truly believe that North Korea will take action at some point and time. It's scary but I can see it happening within a short period of time.

What TRULY scares me is the idea of China joining on North Korea's side. The shear power and forces that China has over the majority of the world is very frightening within my eyes and I, for one, hope some miracle takes place where China just sits by and watches without taking action. If China makes a move, the world is going to shift...

North Korea has been doing this forever. And it bothers me as a south korean. however, N. korea does get support from the UN. For some reason... and the more they do this, the more support they get for compensation...

he may be smart. He gets his resources that are impossible without his... methods...

QUOTE (truth2belief @ Jun 27 2009, 04:00 AM) North Korea has been doing this forever. And it bothers me as a south korean. however, N. korea does get support from the UN. For some reason... and the more they do this, the more support they get for compensation...

he may be smart. He gets his resources that are impossible without his... methods...
What exactly do you mean by "methods"? I am interested

I do agree with your statement that North Korea has been doing this forever though. It's just that it has gotten MUCH worse recently.

This really doesn't worry me much as North Korea though they may have nuclear weapons they:

A. Lack range and would be unable to hit the US or the UK

B. They have very few weapons only about two or three at the most and aren't really comparable to the US

C. China in recent times has become very pro western in it's stance and would have little reason to support North Korea as it is in it's national interest to be friendly with the US

D. The US is almost guaranteed to intervene should North Korea take action against any country in South East Asia, however this is on the condition that it is indeed nuclear action however I could see the US not taking action if it is non nuclear. However the massive threat of intervention will act as a deterent to North Korea.

I don't know why you are all against north korea.
A dictatorship is ALWAYS better than a republic because you know who's the guy leading the nation and if he does something terribly wrong, you can kill him off and change the leadership.In a "democratic" republic you have the same amount of influence on the things going on as in a dictatorship: none!!! You cannot fire the politicians once they got elected and if you vote for for another party at the next election and they do the same sh@# ,you can only cry your eyes out.And what's even worse,even if you get to kill the leading politicians, the other party members will still keep the system up;in dictatorships the system mostly collapses if the dictator is assassinated when he was still unprepared.
That's that.Now about the thing with the atomic weapons.Yes,it is not good to have these,but until now,north corea didn't use any of these,right?They didn't do tests like the French or American dumbs that threw their bombs in the environment.Also,many states that are sworn enemies of north corea like the USA,Isreal,France... have atomic weapons,too.Even India and Pakistan have them,so why do you think north corea has them?Because they want to evade a war.They are a little country with little military, so if America decides to invade them just for fun like Afghanistan or Iraq,what should they do against that?America and Isreal are MUCH MORE dangerous than the little state north corea that lies far in the east.America will wage war with everyone who doesn't do what they want, so,sadly though, atomic weapons are the only defense this land has against a "joint western invasion".The next target of America is Iran,because THEY HAVE NO ATOMIC WEAPONS to defend themselves against an invasion.War will break out sooner or later,and then you'll see who's evil in our world, it's a nation WITH ATOMIC WEAPONS AND WITH THE INTENTION TO START A WAR JUST FOR THEIR OWN INTERESTS, IT'S AMERICA!

Hey, if execution was a punishment for being a poor politician I bet we'd all be living in anarchy right about now.

And in any case, isn't the very current situation in N. Korea a counter argument to what you posted - as you can see, they have yet to remove their dictator, even after how many years now?

Satsujin no batto you have made one of the most ridiculous statements I have heard in my life, the idea that the USA invaded Iraq and Afghanistan is absurd one country would never invade another for a little a reason as it being fun, though they reasons for the invasion of Iraq are suspect that is no reason to belittle the actions of soldiers dying for their countries, and note I said countries for the USA is not the only country involved in these conflicts, many are. From this it seems that you are going out to deliberately target the USA instead of discussing the topic rationally and looking at both sides of the argument. When I say this please do not think that I am taking the side of America, I myself do not support American actions nor do I support North Korea or indeed China I am only trying to defend rational argument.

QUOTE (Satsujin_no_batto @ Aug 15 2009, 03:42 AM) In a "democratic" republic you have the same amount of influence on the things going on as in a dictatorship: none!!! You cannot fire the politicians once they got elected
Be careful what you wish for. In the parliamentary system we can get the leaders out of power before the next "scheduled" election, and here all it's done is create a constant state of election. And all that does is cause voter apathy because it pisses people off and makes it seem like the politicians would rather play games than run the country.

And while the merits and downfalls of different governmental systems is an interesting topic to tackle, unfortunately we will go off topic. So if anyone wishes to discuss it further, please create a new thread. And Satsujin_no_batto be sure to use evidence to support your claims - the opinion that America attacked those countries for "fun" doesn't hold up if you have nothing to support it. Baseless claims attacking any one nation or person will be deleted next time.

I don't think it is something to be too concerned about. We do not know for certain if North Korea even possess nuclear weapons and even if we assume they did for sake of argument, they do not have the missile technology to launch nuclear bombs to European or North American countries. Only USA and Russia possess the missiles to launch nuclear weapons 3000-6000 miles. So even if North Korea did have weapons they could only attack their neighbours. They won't attack China because they have given North Korea financial support, at least until the recent past. And if they bomb South Korea. That would be political suicide as they would receive universal condemnation and likely be attacked by not only South Korea but America plus a whole host of other countries.

North Korea wants nuclear weapons for the same reason Iran wants nuclear weapons; to protect themselves from hostile neighbours. These countries look at the war of Afghanistan and Iraq and think they maybe next. So to safeguard against this they protect themselves with nuclear weapons. It should be noted that Pakistan has a strong Taliban presence yet no war in Pakistan is ever suggested. Because they have nuclear weapons. This is particularly poignant when you consider that Afghanistan is right across the border from Pakistan. So terrorists can easily run into Pakistan and use it as a haven. Indeed many terrorist training camps are in Pakistan for this reason.

QUOTE (Koutakun @ Aug 15 2009, 01:32 PM)though they reasons for the invasion of Iraq are suspect that is no reason to belittle the actions of soldiers dying for their countries, and note I said countries for the USA is not the only country involved in these conflicts, many are.
The war in Iraq and Afghanistan would not have occurred if America did not attack those countries. The war in Afghanistan resulted from the September 11 attacks. The war in Iraq was also instigated by America. It should be noted that the UN did not authorise the war in Iraq and America went against the decision of the UN when attacking Iraq. So it is almost certain there would be no Iraq war if America was not there. In any case USA has lead the wars in both countries. So there is some logic behind claiming these are American wars. As they have been instigated by America (it highly unlikely that Afghanistan or Iraq would ever attack America).

What the point I was trying to get across is that we can discuss and question the reasons for these invasions however it is ridiculous to reduce the reasoning behind these invasions as being for fun.