Jump to content


Photo

Can a democracy make the wrong choice


  • Please log in to reply
181 replies to this topic

Poll: Can a democracy make the wrong choice (0 member(s) have cast votes)

Can a democracy make the wrong choice

  1. Yes (65 votes [92.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 92.86%

  2. No (5 votes [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#41 chiisai_hana

chiisai_hana

    -nipah!

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3733 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Likes: dramas, yaoi manga, kpop, jpop, collecting doujinshi, cooking and baking, anything cute, trying (and failing!) to learn Asian languages

Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:25 AM

QUOTE (MindKry @ Jun 27 2006, 11:59 PM)
We've had three elections in the last 3 years? Maybe 2... I can't remember. First we voted Liberal, and I guess we voted wrong because within a year or slightly after another election was called be ause the Liberal government was incompetant... So we voted liberal again... But it was a minority government this time... See...

We voted in 2000, and it was Liberal ... then again in 2004, and it was Liberal (minority gov) and then this past winter we voted again (Conservative). So they're not all that quickly, since terms are 4-5 years for a majority government.

Actually, this thread was set up to discuss the issues between Palestine and Israel, so if you have anything to add on that, let us know. And we seem to like our political discussions here laugh.gif This isn't the first, and shall not be the last!
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
Proud Member of the SSS (Suki Suki Sia-chan)
It's all about the pretty boys: Yaoi Anime, Yaoi Manga
Love FSTV? Leave a thanks for the team :)


Forum Rules :: Download FAQ :: My FTV Blog

#42 MindKry

MindKry

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 10 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:29 AM

Gotta be faster then that...

Cause when I got into my old job it was oinly 2 years ago... And that's when the second election went down. Then gomery forced another election. And that's how the Conservatives got in.

It might have been a by election I was thinking about one moment...

NM... Whatever... I still like how the biggest issues in the last election was Health care and Day Care. O_o... And because Steven HArper was willing to wign a cheque... He wins. Money wins...

The saddest part of all of this is no one has been able to correct me on this until now... And I've talked to numerous people for the last year about it. At least I too will learn while I'm here.

mk

#43 noob

noob

    ±ⁿ°°ɓ±

  • Fansub TV Team
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3701 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:53 AM

Hamma and chiisai are blessed with pre-birth-knowledge so I would not doubt them.

Yeah, I think the last political issue that we discussed in a thread had something to do with a caricature or something in those lines.


Health Care will always be one of the biggest issues in Canadian elections. Taxation, and I mean high taxation will also be another big issue that each canditate will try to do something about just to get some more votes.

Well yeah, I still think Harper isn't suitable for this kind of job.

Wait, what does this has to do with anything related to Israel and Palestine? I'm so lost

Ah, ps chiisai, do you recall my comments regarding propaganda in most countries and bold's denial? Yeah, I was talking about stuff like that. One channel says what its viewers wants to hear and the other says what its viewers want to hear and see. Same old stuff... I'm just kind of used to news. Hence why I follow up the story through internet. CNN, BBC, Fox and some middle eastern sources. Thank god they do translate their news in english. (cant trust China,... or any other communist country...)

______
Have problems with viewing files? Please try downloading CCCP.
I'll save you world! I'm half way done with my anti-stupidity that acts just like anti-biotic! I'll free you someday.


#44 chiisai_hana

chiisai_hana

    -nipah!

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3733 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Likes: dramas, yaoi manga, kpop, jpop, collecting doujinshi, cooking and baking, anything cute, trying (and failing!) to learn Asian languages

Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:55 AM

That's because the people you were talking to didn't have the ability to pop up the Elections Canada website and double check the dates?

QUOTE
36th General Election - June 2nd 1997
37th General Election - November 27th 2000
38th General Election - June 24th 2004
39th General Election - Janurary 23rd 2006

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
Proud Member of the SSS (Suki Suki Sia-chan)
It's all about the pretty boys: Yaoi Anime, Yaoi Manga
Love FSTV? Leave a thanks for the team :)


Forum Rules :: Download FAQ :: My FTV Blog

#45 Bold

Bold

    -kenja sama

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2789 posts
  • Location:Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:24 AM

QUOTE (MindKry @ Jun 28 2006, 12:12 AM)
QUOTE
We voted in 2000, and it was Liberal ... then again in 2004, and it was Liberal (minority gov) and then this past winter we voted again (Conservative). So they're not all that quickly, since terms are 4-5 years for a majority government.
Gotta be faster then that...

No, the dates Chisai provided are corect. Are you sure you are not confusing provincial or municipal elections with the federal one?

QUOTE
Health Care will always be one of the biggest issues in Canadian elections. Taxation, and I mean high taxation will also be another big issue that each canditate will try to do something about just to get some more votes.
Health care is an exclusively provincial responsability unless we are talking about large scale epidemics and other national health issues. But the everyday health issues are a provincial juridiction and the federal goverment has a big constitutional debate if they want to put their nose in it.

====

But why and how exactly am I talking about the canadian political system in the thread concerning the palestinian and hammas isuues???

If anyone is interested in discussing the various political system, open uo a new thread and you will surely find me there! But for now, please stay on topic.
Follow your dreams, Never give up, Never be afraid,
Always remember, Fortune favors the bolds!

---
You like FTV? Leave a thanks for the team :)
---

Proud developer of the AB Syndicate
user posted image

#46 kenshin himura

kenshin himura

    -chan

  • Kouhais
  • PipPip
  • 101 posts
  • Interests:anime / manga (my best:elfen lied / rurouni kenshin)<br><br>cartoons (my best: spiderman / wolverine ) <br><br>movies(my best: pulp fiction / taxi driver / awakening / requiem for a dream / kung fu / usual suspects / Fight Club / Cidade de Deus / Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il / American History X / Magnolia / the thin red line / X Files ... there is more :) these are enough)<br><br>fareast culture(especially japanese culture)<br><br>fareast martial arts / katana swords (that is my dream a real katana)<br><br>sports (basketball / football / volleyball / swimming )<br><br>photograpy / music<br><br>philosopy / science / thecnology / literature /

Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:08 AM

democracy changes according to the laws of the countries. laws can change during the years, if they changes there must be some improper or false conditions; so democracy can make mistakes.

in addition to this question, there cant be any governing system without mistake because the rulers or governers are humans and we are not perfect; everyone may have faults, the fact is if you have a good government, that is good for society. however, our century is the century of democracy its the best for todays contitions. every system comes as better systems than before. but they are not perfect either.

as society we have the duty that to complete the deficiencies of the system with goodwill to help the governers if it works well and it makes people live comfortable and happy. a country develops not only with its government but also with its people; that is the essence of democracy.

#47 sabishi

sabishi

    -chan

  • Kouhais
  • PipPip
  • 51 posts

Posted 12 July 2006 - 05:34 PM

we are human
we make mistakes

i dont think that there will ever be peace in the middle east
we dont have the right to tell people how to live
maybe the best we can do is help those who want out
the friends i've made have slipped and strayed
and who's the one that cares?
a triffling lot and best forgot-
and thats my lot and theirs

then if my friendships break and bend
there's little need to cry
the while I know that every foe
is faithful till I die

#48 Bold

Bold

    -kenja sama

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2789 posts
  • Location:Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Posted 12 July 2006 - 09:57 PM

QUOTE (sabishi @ Jul 12 2006, 03:17 PM)
maybe the best we can do is help those who want out

This is actually an interesting idea. The real question is : how many of those people actually want out. Out of the conflict yes, but out of what they consider their home?

If there is a bully at your school, you can always avoid the problem by switching school. But is it the best action? More importantly, in this case, is it realistic to ask those people who have lives over there to start over in a new/unknowed place without all of their family and friends?

And this applies to Palestian and Israelly alike.
Follow your dreams, Never give up, Never be afraid,
Always remember, Fortune favors the bolds!

---
You like FTV? Leave a thanks for the team :)
---

Proud developer of the AB Syndicate
user posted image

#49 darkdog

darkdog

    -dredg

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1406 posts
  • Location:poutena @ portugal
  • Interests:anime (seriously!! i'm not kiddin'!), music (hard rock, alt rock, &quot;nu metal&quot;, progressive rock, etc etc) and sheep above all.

Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:19 PM

it's good that this subject was brought up again..

what's going on right now is just ridiculous. israel's attacks against palestine are just at a ridiculous level!! they've kidnapped some palestinian ministers, tonight they bombed and destroyed the ministry of foreign relationships.. what are they trying to do???

i find it hard to believe how Israel still has support from the international community. Hamas is labeled as terrorist, Israel is behaving worse than that -- it sounds like open war at this point. How can someone support that?? What are the reasons for the Israeli to do such attacks?? What do they expect to gain with that???

at this rate, there'll be peace soon because they'll kill eachother.
~ such a shame, my defenses have become my own restrictions... ~ [ lostprophets ]
~ my best days will never be behind me, my best days will never cease to find me.. ~ [XthrowdownX]
user posted image

#50 chiisai_hana

chiisai_hana

    -nipah!

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3733 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Likes: dramas, yaoi manga, kpop, jpop, collecting doujinshi, cooking and baking, anything cute, trying (and failing!) to learn Asian languages

Posted 13 July 2006 - 11:52 AM

What is going on with Isreal and Lebanon? Heard a brief comment about them being attacked this morning on the news.

I agree with darkdog though about the international community still supporting them. I know the people who moved into the new nation of Isreal had been 'beat up' by bully-nations their entire lives ... but wow. I wonder if they'd be so aggressive if they didn't have all that firepower, and were on a level playing field with their neighbours.
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
Proud Member of the SSS (Suki Suki Sia-chan)
It's all about the pretty boys: Yaoi Anime, Yaoi Manga
Love FSTV? Leave a thanks for the team :)


Forum Rules :: Download FAQ :: My FTV Blog

#51 darkdog

darkdog

    -dredg

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1406 posts
  • Location:poutena @ portugal
  • Interests:anime (seriously!! i'm not kiddin'!), music (hard rock, alt rock, &quot;nu metal&quot;, progressive rock, etc etc) and sheep above all.

Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:57 PM

taken from yahoo news (an associated press article):
QUOTE
Israel intensified its attacks against Lebanon on Thursday, blasting Beirut's airport in its heaviest air campaign against its neighbor in 24 years. Four dozen civilians had died in the violence following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah, officials said. After warplanes punched holes in the airport's runways just south of Beirut, Israel's army chief Brig. Gen. Dan Halutz warned that "nothing is safe" in Lebanon. He said Beirut itself -- particularly offices and residences of Hezbollah officials -- would be a target.

from what i know, what motivated this was an attack made by Hezbollah where 2 israeli soldiers were kidnapped. so we all know that an adequate response to kidnapping 2 soldiers is, basically, war.

i've discussed this with bold a couple of hours ago, but he had to go to work so he didn't post here (and he's more up-to-date on this issue than i am).. but israel's actions are basically war tactics. this isn't an exaggeration.. they have attacked the palestinian government facilities, they're destroying both Palestine and Lebanon's infrastructures.. the next step is just a full deployment of troops on those countries. why else would they be destroying infrastructures??

so, basically, Israel is starting a war and the West is on their side. and you can be damn sure i'm not happy with it.
~ such a shame, my defenses have become my own restrictions... ~ [ lostprophets ]
~ my best days will never be behind me, my best days will never cease to find me.. ~ [XthrowdownX]
user posted image

#52 noob

noob

    ±ⁿ°°ɓ±

  • Fansub TV Team
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3701 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:07 PM

And what exactly can we do about it? Like I said, the real terrorist who terrorizes people, is that very country that label other governments and countries terrorists. Right now, I'm more scared of Israeli government than the terrorists themselves. I mean, the terrorists at a small rate of possibility, may be able to get their hands on one or two attomic bombs, but think about Israel, just think about how many attomic bombs they have and we don't know about it. They have so many WMD that can start a war aganist atleast 7 countries at once and they do not have to be necessarily weak, they can be average and above average ( in terms of power, military power)


From my understandings, it has always been that way, we see mere news of what is really happening in between the two. Something like, 1-10% of what really is happening when Israel attacks other countries... Propaganda...

______
Have problems with viewing files? Please try downloading CCCP.
I'll save you world! I'm half way done with my anti-stupidity that acts just like anti-biotic! I'll free you someday.


#53 darkdog

darkdog

    -dredg

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1406 posts
  • Location:poutena @ portugal
  • Interests:anime (seriously!! i'm not kiddin'!), music (hard rock, alt rock, &quot;nu metal&quot;, progressive rock, etc etc) and sheep above all.

Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:53 PM

more news...
QUOTE
Israel claims hundreds of hits in Lebanon
JERUSALEM - Israel has hit hundreds of targets in Lebanon as part of its effort to force the release of two soldiers captured by Hezbollah guerrillas, a top Israeli general said Thursday. Israel intensified its attacks against Lebanon on Thursday, blasting Beirut's airport and two Lebanese army air bases near the Syrian border, and imposing a naval blockade.


noob, right now there's not much we can do alright. it's just evidence that the western countries' support probably shouldn't have happened, at least like it did. they had evidence for a long time that israel abused its powers (think colonates and the wall of shame, for example) and yet the US still back them.

another thing that bold said and he's absolutely right: the US *have* to support them, because they said it's fair for a country to do anything against a terrorist threat. now they'll be responsible for whatever happens, even though they'll surely find a way to deny that responsability.

this should blow back on israel as soon as possible. if it takes too long it'll be too late..
~ such a shame, my defenses have become my own restrictions... ~ [ lostprophets ]
~ my best days will never be behind me, my best days will never cease to find me.. ~ [XthrowdownX]
user posted image

#54 noob

noob

    ±ⁿ°°ɓ±

  • Fansub TV Team
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3701 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:40 PM

Isn't UN going to do anything about this??? If they don't, the suicide bombers will raid Israel. It's not like the war hasn't already started, it has begun the moment they bombared Beirut. This subject should be more like, "Should we allow Israel to do as they wish? Or should we put an halt to their action by all means use force if necessary." We sure don't want another Nazisim to rise to power. Not that they're not that powerful as it is right now.

It is rather ironic that, Jews who once upon a time were victims of ethnic cleansing, are now the criminals who slaughter innocents. (Generalization has been made to reinforce the idea, but as we all know, not all people are criminals, just like Nazi germany...)

Right now, UN is making the same mistake that League of Nations made. YES APPEASEMENT IS NOT NECESSARY!


"Alright, now I only want Rhineland back"
"Well yeah I guess you could have it back, after all 'It is your land'. So please, make yourself comfortable"
"Uh, how about austria? You know, there are lots of german speakers there. We should reunite!"
"Alright guess you..."
"While I'm at it, I'll take 'this' and 'that'. Yup I'm all done!"
"Now, if you take 'that other' one, we'll go to a war. Remember, you don't wanna go to a war with us!"
"Why not? Cause your army is weaker than mine? Alright I guess I won't take 'that other' one!"

----6 months later------

"Hey soviets, wanna divide 'that other' land into two?"
"Sure comrade."
"Well, this is urs and this is mine, lets invade."
"YAY"

----WWII BEGINS----


^^ That story kind of reminds me of this one.

Rhineland is Israel right now, then austria might be Palestine and Lebnon, but what are 'this' and 'that'??? More importantly what is this 'that other one' ???





JP, I completely agree with you, someone need to stop Israel before it is too late.

______
Have problems with viewing files? Please try downloading CCCP.
I'll save you world! I'm half way done with my anti-stupidity that acts just like anti-biotic! I'll free you someday.


#55 darkdog

darkdog

    -dredg

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1406 posts
  • Location:poutena @ portugal
  • Interests:anime (seriously!! i'm not kiddin'!), music (hard rock, alt rock, &quot;nu metal&quot;, progressive rock, etc etc) and sheep above all.

Posted 13 July 2006 - 06:19 PM

from what i watched on the news, there has been some retaliation to Israel already.. if i remember correctly, over 20 israeli villages had mortar attacks and.. something else i don't remember ;P

anyway, this was to be expected, and like noob said, the war already begun. brace yourselves..
~ such a shame, my defenses have become my own restrictions... ~ [ lostprophets ]
~ my best days will never be behind me, my best days will never cease to find me.. ~ [XthrowdownX]
user posted image

#56 noob

noob

    ±ⁿ°°ɓ±

  • Fansub TV Team
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3701 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 July 2006 - 06:40 PM

I guess it's already too late, now let's see, wasn't there some sort of quote in which it was said, "Now I'm not sure how humans will fight the 3rd world war, but I do know that humanity will fight its 4th world war with swords and arrows."

or something like that? Well, I better start sharpenin a sword then, the third world war is about to begin and the 4th one, is where ill only need a sword, since there won't be anything else to fight with.



This kinda reminds me of the condition of civilians during the cold war... How about a cup of Cuban missile crisis tea?

______
Have problems with viewing files? Please try downloading CCCP.
I'll save you world! I'm half way done with my anti-stupidity that acts just like anti-biotic! I'll free you someday.


#57 darkdog

darkdog

    -dredg

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1406 posts
  • Location:poutena @ portugal
  • Interests:anime (seriously!! i'm not kiddin'!), music (hard rock, alt rock, &quot;nu metal&quot;, progressive rock, etc etc) and sheep above all.

Posted 13 July 2006 - 07:05 PM

here's what the US-Israel relation is leading us to.
QUOTE
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United States on Thursday vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution put forward by Qatar on behalf of Arab states that would have condemned Israel's two-week military incursion into Gaza.

ADVERTISEMENT

The vote on the draft resolution was 10-1, with the United States voting no, and four countries abstaining -- Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia.

U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said Washington had voted against the text because it was "untimely and already outmoded."

A resolution requires at least nine votes -- and no veto from any of the council's five permanent members -- for approval. The five are Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States.

The veto was the first by the United States since October 2004 when former Ambassador John Danforth opposed a resolution calling on Israel to end an earlier incursion into Gaza.

It was Bolton's first veto on any issue since he arrived at U.N. headquarters as Washington's top envoy nearly a year ago.

Israel and the United States, its closest ally, had lobbied hard for the measure's defeat, hoping to let it die for lack of support rather than exercise a U.S. veto.

But in the end, the measure attracted more than enough votes for adoption, requiring Bolton to kill it.

The resolution would have demanded the unconditional release of an Israeli soldier captured earlier as well as Israel's immediate withdrawal from Gaza and the release of dozens of Palestinian officials detained by Israel.

Palestinian U.N. Observer Riyad Mansour had argued that the council should view the Gaza action as separate from the crisis along the Israeli-Lebanese border created when Hizbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers and Israel retaliated with a wave of military strikes on Lebanon.

~ such a shame, my defenses have become my own restrictions... ~ [ lostprophets ]
~ my best days will never be behind me, my best days will never cease to find me.. ~ [XthrowdownX]
user posted image

#58 Bold

Bold

    -kenja sama

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2789 posts
  • Location:Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE (chiisai_hana @ Jul 13 2006, 09:35 AM)
I know the people who moved into the new nation of Isreal had been 'beat up' by bully-nations their entire lives ...

I hear that argument a lot. But I would like to point out something. NO one is saying that what happend during WW2 to the jews is not terrible. But the jews are not the only one who suffered in the history of the world.

- The systematic killing of the nomad people of Europe (the romanichel and bohemian) during WW2 by the Nazi (they were so successfull that these people have nearly completely dissapear today)
- The ORGANIZED massacre of countless Tutsie by the Huttus in Rwanda.
- The black population that were kidnapped from their homeland in Africa to be enslaved during many centuries

You could say the first 2 groups are not heard beacuse they are really poor and from back countries. But the african american population is usally not shy to ask for their rights. Yet I never heard an of them use the kind of argument like "we suffered for long, now we can do whatever we want".

So lets put all this in perspective and not be too fast to excuse people of their responsabilities.

QUOTE
Right now, I'm more scared of Israeli government than the terrorists themselves. I mean, the terrorists at a small rate of possibility, may be able to get their hands on one or two attomic bombs, but think about Israel, just think about how many attomic bombs they have and we don't know about it.
Israel is a knowed nuclear power nation. They have a large amount of them. Its a complex story, but basicly it was an "exchange of knowledge" with american scientists to help them protect themselves from "hostile neighbooring nations with population larger then their own".

QUOTE
ve discussed this with bold a couple of hours ago, but he had to go to work so he didn't post here (and he's more up-to-date on this issue than i am).. but israel's actions are basically war tactics.
Its interesting to be quoted even whenI am not here biggrin.gif

More precisely, what I said was that basic modern war strategies from any mobile army (meaning most armies since the Korean war) usally consist of:
1- Early identification of potential targets
2- Deployment of troops next to the targetted area.
3- Aerial bombing of large infrastructures (bridges, power plants, main military bases)
4- Mobile ground troops establish secure area overlapping the borders of the area.
5- Long artillery and more air strikes are used to soften up (and demoralize) targets before the ground troops move in.
6- Once ground troops are in, put under control any leaders or potential head of a resistance.
7- Depending on the objective, large scale deployment of troops to hold the area or move along to the next target while a few remaining troops clean-up the area (and keep the supply lines flowing).

If you look at it, Israel is now between step 5 and 6. It is definatly a total war tactics. Definatly not a way to recuperate a SINGLE CAPTURED soldier hidden in a basement somewhere!

Countries definatly havea right to self defense. But let's call things by their real name and not be afraid of words. This is a war. Not an anti-terrorist action or a rescue mission.

==

I'll comment back on the UN case (and what they could do in the real world) later. I don't want to scare people with a 2 page long thread wink.gif
Follow your dreams, Never give up, Never be afraid,
Always remember, Fortune favors the bolds!

---
You like FTV? Leave a thanks for the team :)
---

Proud developer of the AB Syndicate
user posted image

#59 chiisai_hana

chiisai_hana

    -nipah!

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3733 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Likes: dramas, yaoi manga, kpop, jpop, collecting doujinshi, cooking and baking, anything cute, trying (and failing!) to learn Asian languages

Posted 14 July 2006 - 01:27 PM

@Bold: Actually, I wasn't refering to WWII specificially. More the entire history of the Jewish race, right back to biblical times. Now things are currently in their favour.

That's not to excuse the other cases from history. It just seems, if you believe the entire history of the world back to bibical times, that they have the longest history of abuse.
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
Proud Member of the SSS (Suki Suki Sia-chan)
It's all about the pretty boys: Yaoi Anime, Yaoi Manga
Love FSTV? Leave a thanks for the team :)


Forum Rules :: Download FAQ :: My FTV Blog

#60 noob

noob

    ±ⁿ°°ɓ±

  • Fansub TV Team
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3701 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2006 - 11:41 PM

QUOTE (chiisai_hana @ Jul 14 2006, 09:10 AM)
@Bold: Actually, I wasn't refering to WWII specificially. More the entire history of the Jewish race, right back to biblical times. Now things are currently in their favour.

That's not to excuse the other cases from history. It just seems, if you believe the entire history of the world back to bibical times, that they have the longest history of abuse.

I'd like to revive this discussion for that I am deeply bored and want to kill some more time.

Chiisai, I'm very well awared of Jews' history. They were once punished, then saved by a prophet and led to the land of Israel, BELIEVING THEY ARE THE SUPREME RACE OF ALL, isn't that what Nazi's actually thought? LOL funny stuff... well moving on, Biblical times? I'm sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you talking about the same jews, living in the same period of time in which Jesus was tortured? LAWL? They pretty much doubted him from the moment they saw him, called him devil while the three wise men, from middle east called him the promised prophet that will come soon. Many other things happened, but if I were to blame anyone for Jesus's death, I'd blame Jews and Roman king (of that time) for that, they were the ones who got jesus killed. (Not blaming all jews and what not, just the ones who got themselves involved, unfortunately enough I did not live in those times, thus I do not know them by name wink.gif ) Are you talking about the same race who slaughtered many christians when Christianity was just born? No you cant be, those monsters cannot be the innocents that you talk of. Let's go back and forth the history, you won't find a single race which hasn't endured harshness.

Prefect examples Bold, Tutsie's and Huttus, prefect example indeed. Just how many of you guys have heard of them? Tutsie's were literally slaughtered by Huttus in front of UN officers, well, there was only 100 UN soldiers in Rwanda at that time anyways, it's not like 100 soldiers can possibily stop thusands or millions of armed enemies. They simply sat down and watched the exact same thing as they are doing right now regarding Israel v Palestine/Lebnon. The UN commanding officer in Rwanda, when he was ordered to come back to America to report, had nearly turned into an insane man. Watching innocent civilians dying right before your eyes when your duty is to protect them but getting orders not to interfere or rather could not do it anyway drove him crazy, or least that's what I heard.


Bold, Israel says that they do not have Nuclear weapons and do not allow anyone to investigate in their country to confirm or deny the existance of WMD in their country. So really, we cant say they do have Nuclear Weapons or not. Though we all know they do... LOL... politics... I lawl at you everytime I discuss a deep matter anywhere and anytime in this world.

Also, modern warfare is more like this
-paralize the enemy (by military means)
-disconnect them from any aid and then isolate them
-destroy enemies most important things/obejects/buildings/ places/ centers/ head quarters and so on and so forth
-mobilize
-set up some sort of police or rather some sort of security systems in order to protect the soldiers (certainly not the civilians)
-claim the land



I am very emotional on this matter! The price of oil will rise and shall NEVER go down if this continues on! Why the fuck do we have to suffer for other countries stupidity (excuse the language but had to say that in order to express myself fully).



Oh yeah, I pretty much agree with everything Bold has said so far, though jews did suffer in WWII, they do not have the right to punish muslims who had nothing to do with their suffering.


More importantly new materials are here to be discussed!!
QUOTE
Siniora called for an immediate U.N.-backed cease-fire and international help to stop attacks from Israel's "war machine," according to CNN's translation.

Such a cease-fire, he said, will allow Lebanon to "establish its sovereignty over all its lands" based on the 1949 armistice agreement.

"We are pained as well as angry, yet determined and patient," Siniora said, adding that "these are hours for unity, not for division."

He said Israel was "punishing all Lebanese collectively, with their actions lacking any moral or legal legitimacy."

An Israel Foreign Ministry spokesman responded to Siniora's remarks, saying that Lebanon triggered the crisis by failing to disarm Hezbollah.

"This whole crisis was initiated by aggression by Lebanon into Israel," said Mark Regev.

If Siniora "had done his job correctly," followed relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions and disarmed Hezbollah, "this crisis would have been averted," Regev added.

Israel is willing to implement a cease-fire in accordance with those resolutions, he said.


QUOTE
Civilians killed

Israel intensified its attacks from air, sea and land Saturday on targets such as Beirut and the ports of Tripoli, Amchit and Junieh, according to Lebanese media.

Israel's campaign began when Hezbollah militants based in Lebanon abducted two Israeli soldiers and killed three others during a raid into Israel Wednesday. Israel vowed to free the soldiers.

In his remarks Saturday, Siniora reiterated that the Lebanese government had no knowledge of Hezbollah's plans.

At least 85 Lebanese civilians have been killed, and 229 people have been wounded, according to Lebanese authorities.

Four Israeli civilians, eight soldiers and one sailor have died, Israeli authorities said, adding that 100 other Israelis have been wounded. Three sailors are missing.

Israeli warplanes hit Hezbollah's main headquarters in Beirut, which was struck Friday as well, according to Lebanese interior ministry officials. No casualties were reported from those strikes, the officials said.

The IDF confirmed the aerial attack, saying, "The state of Israel warned the Lebanese population who are present at the compound or around it, using leaflets and different means of communication, to stay clear from the site for their own safety."

Al-Jazeera, the Arabic-language TV network, reported that the headquarters of Hezbollah's spiritual leader, Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, was targeted.

Israel also said it had attacked the Beirut headquarters of Hamas, the Palestinian movement that dominates the Palestinian Authority government.

Earlier on Saturday, an Israeli airstrike near Tyre hit a minibus carrying 20 civilians, killing at least 15 of them, Lebanese internal security sources said.

The IDF said it was making "every effort" to avoid civilian casualties, adding: "Responsibility for endangering civilian population rests on the Hezbollah terror organization, which operates and launches missiles at Israel from populated civilian areas."

More than 75 rockets were fired at Israeli towns on Saturday, the IDF said.

One barrage struck Nahariya, a northwestern town near the Lebanese border. There were no immediate reports of injuries.

The town has been targeted by Hezbollah rocket strikes since the conflict between Israel and the Lebanese-based guerrilla group started Wednesday.

To guard against Katyusha rockets, missile batteries were deployed in Haifa, video from the scene showed.
Leaflets over Lebanon

In the coastal city of Sidon, leaflets rained down from Israeli aircraft urging Lebanese citizens to reject the Hezbollah militants.

Children and adults rushed to grab and read them, CNN's Nic Robertson in Sidon reported.

The leaflets, including a caricature of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah as a serpent, read: "Is the resistance ... helping Lebanon? The resistance ... is destroying Lebanon!"

Israeli airstrikes hit near Lebanon's northern border for the first time on Saturday.

Also targeted were roads and bridges near the eastern border with Syria to prevent the smuggling of weapons and possibly the whisking away of the two captured Israeli soldiers from Lebanon into Syria, the IDF said.

Arab media reports say the strike happened in what is regarded as a no-man's-land east of Baalbek, Lebanon.

A high-ranking Lebanese government official confirmed the attack, while security forces in Syria told CNN that no Israeli airstrikes hit Syria.
'You wanted open war'

After more than 12 hours, the Israeli military Saturday located the body of one of the four sailors missing after a Hezbollah missile attack on an Israeli warship, the IDF confirmed to CNN.

The warship was damaged but operating "on some level" in spite of a fire that had been extinguished; damage to the ship's steering system was also fixed, an IDF spokeswoman said.

A similar missile sank an Egyptian boat, but its crew was rescued by a nearby commercial ship, the IDF said.

On Hezbollah-run Al Manar television, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah claimed responsibility for the attack on the Israeli warship and called it "just the beginning." He also declared "open war" with Israel. (Watch Nasrallah say Hezbollah is ready for war -- 2:14)

"You wanted an open war," Nasrallah said on Friday. "Let it be, then, an open war. (Full story)

Hezbollah, which is backed by Syria and Iran, is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. The group holds 23 of the 128 seats in Lebanon's parliament. (What is Hezbollah?)


source :http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/15/mideast/index.html

edit: meh, im more scared and terrorized by Israel than Palestine and Hezbolla. I mean, nobody can stop them right, what if they some day invade Canada? You know, our military equipment is out-dated and most of the population would want them out dated rather than up-to-dated. baka humans, how are we supposed to protect our selves from the real terrorists?

Damn, one of my buddies went to Lebnon not long ago, I think he's gonna die thanks to Israel.

______
Have problems with viewing files? Please try downloading CCCP.
I'll save you world! I'm half way done with my anti-stupidity that acts just like anti-biotic! I'll free you someday.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users