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Theory of Evolution


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#61 Gustav1976

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 10:52 AM

Could I ask a mod to close this thread for the time being as the discussion has dfited away from the original purpose according to the thread title and seems to be more about pointing out flaws in other peoples statements at the moment

#62 CASSHERNxLYUZE

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (Dalriada @ Dec 01 2008, 03:24 AM)
Wrong.
By citing the RCC as the largest Christian group, I expect that you have better arguments that "I don't like them" or "They don't think like me".

I don't remember saying that or anything to that effect.


QUOTE
Apparently, you don't have better arguments. Too bad.

If my arguments were that bad, you would have destroyed me days ago and you won't be wasting your time now responding to them.


QUOTE
No, it can't. For two reasons :
-The experiences can be repeated at will.
-The papers published in scientific reviews are peer-reviewed, i.e. other scientists judge is the study is rigourous enough to be published.

So there's "authority" involved?



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#63 darkdog

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 05:40 PM

QUOTE
But the next time I hear such sounds, I'll try to see if I can intuitively figure out what they're trying to say.


I just want to be sure of what you meant with this reply before i answer: is it just me, or were you being quite sarcastic? Were you in any way trying to say that if we were indeed an evolved species of ape we should understand what apes are "saying", and the fact that we have no idea of what their sounds mean we're at the very least unlikely to share a common past?
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#64 Dalriada

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE

If my arguments were that bad, you would have destroyed me days ago and you won't be wasting your time now responding to them.


I'm still looking for your arguments (except that they don't think like you, of course). :/

QUOTE

So there's "authority" involved?


There's peer-reviewed authority. wink.gif
Because the human life is limited, one can't do anything. Therefore one has to trust other people (for example : I have no proof the USA do exist. I know it from authorities like atlas, hollywood movies and posters on the Internet).

The good thing with science, and the main difference with religion : it gives you empirical observations, logical and step-by-step reasoning and finally experiences to try to disprove a theory. And you're free to retry it at home ! (it's a very common thing, by the way. When a lab do a new experience, other labs repeat it. Except when the experience involve something like a large hadron collider, since there's only one in the world).
On the other hand, the only authority the Bible provide is "Accept it, or else...". It doesn't mean there's not some truth in the Bible, but not a scientific one, and not a very convincing one.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

#65 motormind

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 09:34 PM

QUOTE (koiji @ Sep 12 2008, 02:12 PM)
Well, thinking about religion. I discovered myself posting in the Christianity thread.. something about evolution. I looked around the Thoughtful Section and couldn't find anything on Evolution.. So here it is.

Weird that you step from religion to a scientific theory, based on an observations in the real world, which is not like religion at all.

#66 CASSHERNxLYUZE

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 10:48 AM

QUOTE
I just want to be sure of what you meant with this reply before i answer: is it just me, or were you being quite sarcastic? Were you in any way trying to say that if we were indeed an evolved species of ape we should understand what apes are "saying", and the fact that we have no idea of what their sounds mean we're at the very least unlikely to share a common past?

Take it literally. I really intend to do what I said.



QUOTE
I'm still looking for your arguments (except that they don't think like you, of course). :/

Huh? huh.gif


QUOTE
There's peer-reviewed authority.

It's Argumentum ad Verecundiam then?


QUOTE
Because the human life is limited, one can't do anything. Therefore one has to trust other people (for example : I have no proof the USA do exist. I know it from authorities like atlas, hollywood movies and posters on the Internet).

Since when have Hollywood movies and posters on the Internet been considered as "authority"?


QUOTE
The good thing with science, and the main difference with religion : it gives you empirical observations, logical and step-by-step reasoning and finally experiences to try to disprove a theory. And you're free to retry it at home ! (it's a very common thing, by the way. When a lab do a new experience, other labs repeat it. Except when the experience involve something like a large hadron collider, since there's only one in the world).

That's a pretty convenient exception don't you think?


QUOTE
On the other hand, the only authority the Bible provide is "Accept it, or else...".

That's not really the case. Biblical teachings acknowledge that many won't accept it and those who do will face persecution. No one is forced to even listen. But IF what it's saying is true, then those who refused the chance to heed it's teachings are obviously headed in for a whole heap of trouble.

As you said, "human life is limited". Where's the wisdom in investing so much in it?
You can make me look like an idiot by throwing scientific theories and logic at me, but then what? What good is that after we die? And I'm pretty sure neither of our biological lives will last for more than a century and a half.


QUOTE
It doesn't mean there's not some truth in the Bible, but not a scientific one, and not a very convincing one.

I believe it regardless.



QUOTE
Weird that you step from religion to a scientific theory, based on an observations in the real world, which is not like religion at all.

2 Timothy 3 : 1-9

Tell me if that doesn't the least bit checks out with the real world.
My enemies just call me "Casshern".
- Casshern (Casshern Sins Ep. 01)

#67 JustGravy

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 03:01 PM

QUOTE
That's not really the case. Biblical teachings acknowledge that many won't accept it and those who do will face persecution. No one is forced to even listen. But IF what it's saying is true, then those who refused the chance to heed it's teachings are obviously headed in for a whole heap of trouble.


I think you just proved his point. "Believe it or else..."
Belief out of convenience... sounds like. There is no scientific or logical reason to believe in it; the only reason for your belief is out of fear.
I would think that God would want people to believe in him out of goodness or pure faith, not out of fear of his wrath or desire to be on the winning side.

#68 Dalriada

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 06:52 PM

QUOTE

It's Argumentum ad Verecundiam then?


Of course.
And it's bad only if you believe that every authority is bad.
But here, the authority can be (and is) questioned.

QUOTE

That's a pretty convenient exception don't you think?


A fundamental exception !
And you're probably one of the few who can't understand why this exception is so important (actually, I'm quite sure you understand, but that you're just trolling. Anyway, the other readers of this thread will have the 'arguments' of both sides and decide by themselves).

QUOTE

That's not really the case. Biblical teachings acknowledge that many won't accept it and those who do will face persecution. No one is forced to even listen. But IF what it's saying is true, then those who refused the chance to heed it's teachings are obviously headed in for a whole heap of trouble.


I just want to hear a trial of racket or blackmail using this kind of defense.
"But your Honor, he accepted to give his money ! He had the choice ! Or course, had he refused, we would have to punch him"

QUOTE

As you said, "human life is limited". Where's the wisdom in investing so much in it?
You can make me look like an idiot by throwing scientific theories and logic at me, but then what? What good is that after we die? And I'm pretty sure neither of our biological lives will last for more than a century and a half.


As Rabelais said, science without conscience is the soul's perdition.
There's some ethical problems with what to do with scientific knowledge.
But firstly, it's an ethical problem, not a scientific one.
And secondly, even if we disagree with one application of a scientific theory, it doesn't make the theory less true. Science is not democratic, the truer is not the more popular.
QUOTE

2 Timothy 3 : 1-9

Tell me if that doesn't the least bit checks out with the real world.


I'm not concerned, I don't even have a form of godliness.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

#69 JustGravy

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 07:09 PM

QUOTE
2 Timothy 3 : 1-9

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.


Do you remember what I said in the other thread (Science v. Religion)? About BestBuy and CircuitCity? The first thing about convincing people is to make them suspicious of anything that might disagree with you.
That phrase by no means validates the bible.

Homosexuality is nothing new; it's been around forever. So has greed, narcicism, disobedience, and a good number of things listed there. Any one or even all of these characteristics can apply to any person. To suggest that the entire world is like that is quite a pessemistic thought. You completely ignore the good. But that's not my point.
The fact that the bible says some very vague things about people or society as a whole (depending on how you want to look at it) that may be true in some instances does not give it credibility with respect to what else it has to say.
Any number of other books, fictional and nonfictional, have said equally vague things. Does this suggest that they are all equally credible?

Thus far, your arguments have had severe fallacies in them; your logic is lazy, biased, and filled with superstition; and your knowledge of the theory of evolution is fantastically poor. Unless you can provide credible, observational, and relevant information, your opinion is exactly that - an opinion. It has no point to argue and it seems you are unwilling to concede at all on it. I see no further need to discuss it.

#70 Kit-Tsukasa

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 11:26 PM

Users have complained about the off-topic-ness of this thread and arguments are beginning to get out of hand.

This topic is suspended/locked for two weeks.

#71 Patrick5087

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 02:59 AM

wel now that this is back....

The hard part everyone is seeing is that, How can a monkey turn into a man. Given enough time it will happen. The reason we can seee it in animals is because of hte reality short lifespans they have. Dogs and cats live really short lives. While we last on average 60 years.

Granted I think the number of years the scientist say are wrong, but, we don't really know what fully drives evolution. We know conflict is one part of it. If one is better at getting food than another then that one organism is going to live. Thats the reason infections are so bad in humans. Small bacteria get into your body and start taking the food/chemicals that your body needs to function. And if your body can't fight the infection then your screwed.

So even now the war is still on when it comes to evolution. And currently the hardest one is vs the virus. It has a mutative rate beyond of what they really think... I mean they have vaccines for some of the most deadliest diseases out there but they don't have one for the common cold.

Here is my list of "factors" that I think are envoled in any sort of evolution.

1. Food
2. Environment IE: how hospitable it is.
3. Other hostile creatures. IE what is going to try to eat me.


#72 judge lead

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 04:33 PM

evolution is my belife, its also fact. they proved it with a type of bird, it lives on 2 islands where it has developed different types of beaks, one lives where it survives on nuts, thus growing a crushing beak. the other lives mostly on fruits thus growing a more needley sharper beak to pick at the flesh of the fruit.

i'm agnostic btw.

#73 AccipiterF1

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 09:41 PM

QUOTE (judge lead @ Jun 12 2010, 11:33 AM)
evolution is my belife, its also fact. they proved it with a type of bird, it lives on 2 islands where it has developed different types of beaks, one lives where it survives on nuts, thus growing a crushing beak. the other lives mostly on fruits thus growing a more needley sharper beak to pick at the flesh of the fruit.

i'm agnostic btw.

14 or 15 species of birds, not two. Darwin's finches. And each one has a specifically evolved beak designed for and changing to the specific conditions in which they live. There has been an ongoing study for the past 30 or so years in the Galapagos Islands measuring these birds and their reactions to severe climatic changes on the islands over that period of time and they not only found proof of evolution, they found it was measurable and happens far more rapidly than anyone suspected. If you want to know more, read this book:
http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/067973337X

Despite being nearly abandoned in the early 20th century, the theory of Evolution has now become one of the best documented and accepted theories within the Scientific community. More is known about it than is know about Gravity. The only people who question it anymore are Theists who insist on filtering the world through the distorted eye their particular belief system despite any empirical evidence shown to them.

Medatashi medatashi.

Thumbs up! +1

Edited by doofus123, 22 May 2011 - 02:14 AM.


#74 gdpetti

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:57 PM

Evolution is based in the basic dynamic of creation as 'God' explores itself through itself, as It is all there Is. Usually seen as what is called the morphogenetic play with local conditions that change with 'time' or the flow of energy in the 'now' or omnipresent... which given UFT (unified field theory) gives us hyperdimensional use of time as well as space as a field of exploration of this 'God' within all that is; past, present and future.

Things, like people, do 'evolve' or 'wake up' from within, as all is this 'God' or consciousness within all that exist. Thus the many adages about 'all is a dream, but you are the dream, you are the dreamer' or the other elements found in literature such as Shakespeare's 'all the worlds a play and each must play their part' etc. Essentially, 'God' is playing every part; good, bad, ugly as well as the beautiful but this realization doesn't really help us at this level in which the goal of 'evolution' is The Choice of those that answer the 'call', i.e. 'many are called, few are chosen', which hides the simple fact that personal 'evolution' is based within the confines of the self and its environment and its conditions that prove either fruitful or not for further development of the innate consciousness.

This then gets into the evolution of oppositions with defines or delineates the creation and all its many densities/levels of awareness within which are found infinite dimensions in exploration of the same sense of self as 'God' seeks to 'know thyself' within each 'spark of creation'.

The determining factor for us in this 'game of evolution' is the shift in our DNA, which serves as the programming language for our personal avatar, if you will. It is up to us to Choose the negative/AntiChrist/south pole energies or the opposite positive/Christ/north pole energies, and this requires the classic need to 'discipline the self/ego/personality', which is dependent upon our 'waking up' our conscious mind to the reality of the world/environment around us. It is our classroom of life where we learn our lessons in consciousness. You can't truly choose without the knowledge of which is which. The negative lies, cheats and steals telling us that they are the tellers of truth. It is what they do, they appear as 'false prophets' to distract and tempt all us 'sheep' into temptation and keep us in their herd here in Purgatory. Purgatory is a maze or prison from which we 'evolve' or 'awaken' and learn to either enjoy controlling others or choose to exit/escape into a future probability that awaits those that choose the other side of the cosmic equation, STO/Christ/positive polarity of service to others.

All evolution is determined by this dynamic of Choice, and the 'war' within our minds is for whose 'call' will be answer, when we 'awaken' and start the seeking within and without our personal and public environment. As we 'evolve', the bio-chemical processes within affect our DNA which slowly triggers the necessary proteins etc that setup the self for the next stage of the 'game', the next classroom or density of awareness/perception. The DNA of the 'Chosen' is those in a process of 'evolution' as it awakens and prepares to give birth to itself come the necessary environment change/transition that the approaching 'wave' or realm border to the next level brings with it... the change in classroom... or the change in environment answers the call of those of us that have awakened and chosen to 'graduate'. Consciousness is what it is all about as 'God' awakens within all forms of consciousness, human or not, as the form doesn't matter, only the 'godself' within... the soul counts, not the body... which is another DNA creation within the planetary/stellar/galactic morphogenetic forms that Robert Sheldrake talks of.

The process of 'evolution' is said to be on 'autopilot' but that at our point in the space/time continuum, the self within, the conscious mind has to awaken and choose the manner of further 'evolution'.... STS/AntiChrist/negative polarity vs STO/Christ/positive polarity... which continues to grow or evolve until unity is established at the subconscious/angel level where balance is always maintained and in which the blueprint for our 'evolution' is overseen. We seek ourself, our deeper self and our 'evolution' or 'awakening' is always targeted towards that goal. We 'evolve' to our 'future self' or the Truth. This dance takes two to tango, so it was designed from the beginning/endpoint in this opposition or splitting of the Self/God into the positive and negative dynamic... think EM energies of our own planet... South/negative/constrictive energies vs North/positive/expansive energies.

There is a lot more going on than we have been told, as we exist in an negative or Purgatorial classroom from which we have find our way out of... a prison of the mind in which, not only our DNA has been turned to 'junk' by the 'dark side' at the next level of this 'game' - those who currently control this realm, but our cultures have been designed by these overlords of entrophy to program our conscious minds to be like sheep and believe the lies our 'leaders' tell us from cradle to grave. They set up the conditions of our environment from which we must 'evolve' our conscious minds with knowledge and discernment so that we can make this 'Choice' in one direction or the other. This is said to be the turning point or nexus of the creation at all levels as our choice here and now, determines the 'future' or the path not only we take but the planet as well. This is very important in hyperdimensional terms as this Choice determines the rise or fall of all other probability vectors in the space/time continuum, the delineation of one path over all others. This is the reason for so much 'chaos' in our life at present, as the battle of these opposing energies interact in our lives from 'higher' levels of awareness.

All of this has been written about it seems since the 'Fall' of our consciousness long ago, when we were tempted into the Garden of Deceit by the mere omission of truth. Not much has changed since and we are each tasked with the mission to 'awaken' our minds to the truth and listen to that 'call' from within and not confuse it with all the 'noise' generated by the other side. Of course, it depends upon which side of the fence you seek to be on. All paths eventually lead back to the Truth, some just choose the selfish path, others choose the unselfish path.

That is said to be the true basis of 'evolution'... awakening our DNA from within, in our own time, in our own way. It's all a matter of energy and how we choose to use it once we learn about the reality of 'free will'.

I find it interesting to see so many examples of this in anime in general, such as LAIN with the internet as the 3rd density introduction to the 4th density social memory complex and access to the psychic records known in the past as the Akashic Records that contain all the planets history. Seems most esoteric references found in anime all point in the same direction to the transition of our planet and its peoples as the 'veil' of control drops down and we are confronted with reality, ready or not.

The question seems to be how many are ready to 'evolve'? Our 'leaders' have been controlled to do their 'dark masters' bidding by 'dumbing us down' so that we remain as 'sheep' and don't stray too near the fence that separates us from reality and truth of all that lies beyond the fence. Our environment has been poisoned and raped by industry, religion, government, media and nearly all forms of culture to these very ends of maintaining control of the 'herd'. How many are ready to explore beyond the fenceline? How many are ready to 'awaken' and 'evolve'?

#75 Mowerman

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE (Dalriada @ Sep 12 2008, 02:38 PM)
Evolution is a theory, not a belief (because you know, it's science, not a religion).

They do have a scientific religious community now biggrin.gif. Scientology I think is what they are calling it.

God is what each individual takes from him is my personal standing on the subject. I am very scientific minded. I've taken course in physics, biology, and mathematics and currently hold a degree in computer sciences majoring in network infrastructures. I find myself watching science channel or history channel(when they are hosting a science related show) than any other channel because it makes me think.

When you get down to the fundamentals of religion, as the Christians think of it. Everything man does is influenced by God. Science is something man does, so does it not follow that God gave man science too? Personally, I have not found a single scientific theory that states there is no God and to date, scientists can only theorize to 10 to the minus 28 seconds after the big bang. What happened before that?




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