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#1 wowfood

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 06:30 PM

I'm just asking this of people as a kind've thought provoker. I'm not some marketting team its just something i'm curiious about because i know my reasons but i'm not sure how other people think.

I'm a huge anime fan i've download christ knows how many anime, and i would love to buy the DVD's but i won't and these are my reasons.

Overpriced.

Ok i think thats a fairly good reason don't you? I can understand a lot of things about why these DVD's are so expensive.

Cost of editing, dubbing, re-mastering, re-doing certain animations, re-doing the music. But likewise thats just what pisses me off.

1: i'm not paying £20 for a dvd with 2 eps of the series on. (if i ever buy it'll be the discounted box sets which are normally about £80 which still seems too much if you ask me)

2: Why am i paying for all these extra features? i mean, i buy these dvd's rarely if ever at all. And when i buy them i listen to the dubs for 5 seconds and want to rip out my ear drums, turn on the subs, switch to japanese audio and i'm happy.

3: i'm also paying for these special features... what special features i dont' see them anywhere.


So to put it bluntly i'm paying a large amount in my opinion for a large amount of features that i am never going to use. Ever. I hate the english audio and i don't even see the point in bothering with the "special features"

What would make me buy Anime DVD's? hmm.. Perhaps if they dropped the crap and gave me something worth my money. If we thinka bout how much of the original price is made up to cover the expenses of what noboyd uses then i'd say the actual price of the dvd's they'd be selling would be maybe 40% lower, since they aren't paying voice actors etc etc etc. so we've just dropped from £20 per dvd to £12, and per box set we've dropped from £60 - £80 down to £36 - £48

Now those are prices i would be willing to pay. Not to mention the fact it'd be out a hell of a lot faster.

I honestly don't understand why a few of the licensed anime companies don't do something similar to fansub.tv as in. When they license the product they get it translated and subbed, pop all of their DVD's onto an online store and let people download the entire series etc for the discounted price. I know i'd be interested in something like that.

I don't think that these companies realise that, the majority of people who buy these DVD's are people who actually watch fansubs, and are used to the japanese and reading subtitles etc, as well as getting the series much sooner then the english equivalent.

Either way i think this rant is long enough. If anyone else has any views / corrections to my math then let me know.


=== edit ===

Just pointing one other thing out. After watchign so much anime i'm gradually grasping the basics of the language, enough to get through an average episode and know the gist of what everyones on about.

I would order the anime from abroad where its cheaper, But i'm not going to let customs screw me over with their bloody tax charges.

#2 Hiasubi

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:02 PM

Even though this Thread talks about Anime, i think it should be in the Thoughtful Discussion, so im going to place it there, if any other Mods disagree feel free to move it to a more appropriate location.

#3 Dalriada

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 09:34 PM

QUOTE

I'm a huge anime fan i've download christ knows how many anime, and i would love to buy the DVD's but i won't and these are my reasons. 

Overpriced. 


Niche market + expensive product (licence, dubbing...) is a bitch.

Niche market : compared to other DVD (like CSI, House M.D., Smallville etc), the audiences of animes is really small. So you must share the costs between far less people, then it's more expensive.

So you must sell your product at an higher price than other DVD.
But you can't, if your DVD is twice more expensive than the typical DVD, nobody will buy it.
Solution : sell two DVD instead of one, by putting twice less episodes on one DVD.

About the dubbing : you may dislike dubbing, but some people won't even try to watch a subbed anime (in my experience, a lot of people. Of course, those people wouldn't come on a fansub website). The market is already small, no need to reduce it.

Well, my little speech was nice, but it's not the point.
The reasons you don't buy the DVD are a bit easier : you can download the animes for free.

QUOTE

I honestly don't understand why a few of the licensed anime companies don't do something similar to fansub.tv as in.  When they license the product they get it translated and subbed, pop all of their DVD's onto an online store and let people download the entire series etc for the discounted price.  I know i'd be interested in something like that.


It would still be far more expensive than downloading it using torrent, and it would be released far later.
So the problem wouldn't change.
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#4 Megiddo

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 10:30 PM

I'm oblivious to how things are over there in Europe, but here in the United States, we're seeing a lot more reasonable priced anime.

For example, I recently bought the Beck box set, a 26 episode series, for a mere $45. Perhaps a few years ago I would have been charged 70-80 dollars for the same set. So, at least from the other side of the Atlantic, I can say that companies are starting to change their pricing scheme. A lot more box set releases than singles are being released.

So, I don't know if y'all will experience the effects of what's going on around here, but I do say that those prices are quite ridiculous. I imagine that anime is even more niche in the UK than the US? I wouldn't know myself, but that could be a reason for the higher prices =\

#5 Kit-Tsukasa

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:01 PM

I could have sworn another topic like this already exists...I'll close this or the other once it's found.

Nevertheless, for me at least, the easiest reason is the price. Not everyone in the world today, especially with the poor economy, have that much money to spend even on one full series. In addition, the price of subbed-only dvds (examples include Kasimasi, Strawberry Panic, and Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru) are the same price as dubbed dvds, which is absurd....Next, as wowfood has already stated, there are all these extra features that not everyone is willing to pay the extra money for because in a few years most of these features become either obsolete or just plain useless.

I recently visited a local store and saw Kannazuki no Miko limited edition (3 dvds) box set (the one with the two half clam shell as a "gift" item). Price you ask? $80. Normal edition: $50.......I am NOT paying $30 for a stupid plasitc clam shell even though it may or may not be a collector's item.

Onegai Twins: $50 (2 dvds box set), $30 (1 DVD)..........uhhh....I could get a better deal buying a foreign movie dubbed in english and another language with subs at my local dvd store......

If anything these companies need to learn that these dvds are not worth more than normal foreign language dvds. That's the fault that these companies are not seeing and those users on ANN, I hope they realize what they're wasting their money on.

Let's face it, fansubs are what brought light to many of these companies. Without them, these companies would have never survived or even seen the light of day.

#6 Megiddo

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE (Kit-Tsukasa @ Sep 07 2008, 05:01 PM)
I recently visited a local store and saw Kannazuki no Miko limited edition (3 dvds) box set (the one with the two half clam shell as a "gift" item). Price you ask? $80. Normal edition: $50.......I am NOT paying $30 for a stupid plasitc clam shell even though it may or may not be a collector's item.

Onegai Twins: $50 (2 dvds box set), $30 (1 DVD)..........uhhh....I could get a better deal buying a foreign movie dubbed in english and another language with subs at my local dvd store......

Physical stores will nearly always have a higher price. I honestly can't recall the last time I bought a DVD from an actual store (other than conventions).

You can find anime much cheaper online.

Like here or here

#7 chiisai_hana

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE (Megiddo @ Sep 07 2008, 07:26 PM)
You can find anime much cheaper online.

This depends entirely on where you live, as shipping costs can be pretty expensive and actually make it more expensive to order online. That last time I bought anime, I was still paying $45 (CDN) for one disc so in some respects, they are making certain series cheaper.

Although I know it's illegal, I do think stopping fansubs will hurt their sales. I personally do not buying anything I haven't seen (or read) before. As it is, DVDs are my last priority for a purchase as I much prefer manga. They're going to have a really hard time selling it to me for these prices, especially if I haven't seen the show before.

The best and last anime DVD purchase I made was two years ago. The entire Loveless boxset for $30CDN, exactly what I think it's worth. It came with no extras and no dub, but as long as I can play the disc and have subs I'm happy to buy.


Kit, I believe this has been discussed at length in various threads. The "Are Fansubs Legal" thread and the "General Anime Discussion" thread come to mind.
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#8 Megiddo

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:51 PM

I can't really understand why to be honest. From what I see, the Canadian Dollar and US Dollar are nearly equivalent, and from what I see at RightStuf.com it costs 7 US dollars to ship to Canada whereas it costs $3 to ship to someone in the States. That's only a four dollar difference? Or is it in the duties and such that the cost piles up?


#9 chiisai_hana

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:05 AM

I meant in general, actually. Like I said, I haven't bought DVDs in two years. I did do a book order through akadot last winter, though, and ended up paying a $34CDN customs duty on $40 worth of books dry.gif
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#10 Barbobot

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:05 AM

The only thing I'll ever buy are the season box sets, be it thin pack or otherwise. The singles are just far too expensive imo. I'm not gonna pay $30 for 3-4 episodes in most cases. I'd much rather just wait a bit longer for the season sets to come out. The only singles I have are 4 of the FMA dvds and only cause they were all christmas presents. In the last 2 months I've bought the full seasons of Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star and Full Metal Panic for $40-50 each. That I think is the sweet spot for pricing full 26 episode series, maybe even going up to $60. Any higher than that and I wouldn't bother buying it unless it was a show I really like and had specials that made it worth it.

#11 Kit-Tsukasa

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:14 AM

QUOTE (Megiddo @ Sep 07 2008, 04:51 PM)
I can't really understand why to be honest. From what I see, the Canadian Dollar and US Dollar are nearly equivalent, and from what I see at RightStuf.com it costs 7 US dollars to ship to Canada whereas it costs $3 to ship to someone in the States. That's only a four dollar difference? Or is it in the duties and such that the cost piles up?

Canadian and US dollars are not equivalent recently....I think Canadian dollars are starting to increase in value.....

and yes there are customs for most sites since the series is licensed/manufactured in the U.S and shipped/retailed from the US as well.

#12 khael

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 06:02 AM

I agree that the price is a major factor. I mean, for a DVD Box set of Cowboy Bebop with all its episodes in it that's worth one month's spending why the hell would i buy it? I mean i really do think it's worth something (Loved the series), but definitely not my whole month's worth of basic needs and utilities. And talk about singles, they're way more expensive than the full season box sets.

Also, yes the fact that you can download anime for free is not helping either.

As much as i am willing to pay for anime, it's just not part of my daily expenses which is already having a killing spree on my financial resources.

BTW, i've heard that Druaga no Tou was broadcast on the internet for free. I don't really exactly know what effects it may have. Nonetheless i wish something like this would happen again.
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#13 monsta

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 08:51 PM

Another significant factor that people tend to forget is the fan base. Most anime fans tend to be teenagers/students who DON'T have a large amount of disposable income. So the high price of anime could be seen as counter productive. Saying that the costs of producing anime are high. The US/European distributor has to spend a large amount of money acquiring the licence to a series. They then need to hire a team of translators to dub (and sub) the series which adds a significant amount to the bill. All these costs are then passed to the consumer. Considering the anime fan base is not large each fan has to pay more money for an anime series. You could say the cost of 1 hour of anime is far greater than the cost of 1 hour of Hollywood film. Bit of a dodgy example but I hope you get a picture.

There are ways of reducing the cost for the companies (and consumer) but they are not without it's disadvantages. Perhaps they could stop the dubbing process and just release the series in subtitles. Such a thing would alienate a large amount of fans (particularly the newbies to anime who are the future for the industry). So it's a bit of a gamble. Considering the current economic climate I doubt many companies (if any) would want to take significant risks. Then again FUNimation work in funny ways...

Off course both industries suffer from piracy. Perhaps it is an even bigger problem in anime because the cost of anime (per customer) is so much greater making the free option that much more tempting. If anime was cheaper would piracy decrease as more people bought the series legitimately? It's a difficult question really. On the one hand fansubs add publicity to the series which can actually boost sales. On the other it may stop people (who aren't hardcore) from buying the series. It's the million dollar question (perhaps more).

#14 Dalriada

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE (monsta666 @ Sep 09 2008, 02:51 PM)

Off course both industries suffer from piracy. Perhaps it is an even bigger problem in anime because the cost of anime (per customer) is so much greater making the free option that much more tempting. If anime was cheaper would piracy decrease as more people bought the series legitimately? It's difficult question really.

The question is not if decreasing the price would bring customers. It's probably true.
The true question is whether the gain of customers would compensate the loss of benefits. If a DVD price is cut in half, would the number of customers increase twofold ?

QUOTE

On the one hand fansubs add publicity to the series which can actually boost sales. On the other it may stop people (who aren't hardcore) from buying the series. It's the million dollar question (perhaps more).


Fansubs helping the anime industry is hypocritical imho (otherwise, how do we explain the scantrads of Bleach/Naruto ? A few rotten apples ? Among the fansubbers maybe, but the readers are quite numerous, to say the least)

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#15 monsta

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (Dalriada @ Sep 09 2008, 10:48 PM)
The question is not if decreasing the price would bring customers. It's probably true.
The true question is whether the gain of customers would compensate the loss of benefits. If a DVD price is cut in half, would the number of customers increase twofold ?

I was not talking about demand but the temptation of piracy. I'll give an example. When the cost of cigarettes was lower less people bought bootleg cigarettes as the difference in price was not great. As more and more tax is added to cigarettes the temptation to go for the bootleg option increases. The same could apply to anime series as the cost of owning a series is greater than a normal film. All in all it could be a case that the anime industry is losing more money (relatively speaking) than the Hollywood industry. The increased cost of piracy will contribute to the increased costs of anime.

QUOTE (Dalriada)
Fansubs helping the anime industry is hypocritical imho (otherwise, how do we explain the scantrads of Bleach/Naruto ? A few rotten apples ? Among the fansubbers maybe, but the readers are quite numerous, to say the least)

It's a mixed bag. For big series such as DragonballZ/Naruto/Bleach fansubs will not make a big difference. If anything they will actually harm sales figures. This is because the series are widely available (much like Hollywood movies). If the series is more obscure and less well distributed then a series will benefit more from fansubs. I believe the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya benefited from fansub distribution. Correct me if I'm wrong.

#16 Hiasubi

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 09:02 AM

Well i dont mind surporting DVD sales and Manga sales, but for me it isnt so much the price although ill admit that it is annoying, to buy the Cowboy Bebop DVDs it is going to cost me £100, which i like most people just dont have that amount of cash to just splurge out like that.

But for me the main problem i have when it comes to liscensed animes is DVD region. Im in the United Kingdom so i need Region 2 DVDs, but all american liscensed DVDs come out on Region 1 and even then there isnt a garuntee that the series wil be released Region 2 eg. Girls Bravo, AIR, Kanon 2006, DBZ. It took bloody long enough for Haruhi get released region 2, but its £30+ for a DVD which has 3 episodes.

So in other words i need to buy a multi region DVD player, problem is very few of the ones ive seen, say that its Region 1, many say region 1, but inactual fact they are only region 1 if you input a code (which i still dont know where to get hold of).

Im for buying DVDs when the prices come down eg it cost me £10 for the Gunslinger Girl Boxset of Amzon, which should have been £40, nice bargin. But my main stumbling block is the DVD regions, hence why my Manga collection is greatly superior to my Anime collection.



#17 Daii

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:45 PM

Well, the reason i don't buy anime dvds, is because i live in Sweden, and in Sweden. Anime is a childrens thing. Anime is put in the childrens section in video stores, if anime ever is shown on the movies...it is swedish dubbed.

Not to mention if anime is ever shown on tv, it is most likely dubbed.

You know, who would want to support a company that treats anime as a children's thing? It is pretty frustrating.

In a sense it is like CDs, noone buys CDs, they only have to google the song and artist name and they got it for free.

The one thing companys can compete with is quality, and i am NOT paying them ANYTHING for dubs i don't want or the swedish version (that probably sucks) of the opening/ending. The only thing i want is english/swedish subs and a reasonable price.

Just thinking about how much i've spent on the little manga and anime i have. It's worth about a good new computer...

The companys could do it so much easyer on themself if they just gave the people what they wanted, i think alot more people would recomend anime to their friends if their friends in return would have a easy way of getting said anime.

Juat look at the fansubbers, if companys could just make it easy on themself and make licensing not such a big and long process, any anime fan would probably want easy to get quality anime, if it was cheap. yes 3 episodes of anime is about the same lenght as a movie, but noone can say that 3 episodes of anime is as good as ONE movie. Anime is good because it's a series.

But ofcourse, if the companys could do this they would probably have done it.

Basically it's a bad circle, if we want to change this circle we would have to split it and remake a whole new circle, and i don't think the companys can do that right now if they don't want to go bankcrupt.


#18 monsta

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 06:38 PM

QUOTE (Hiasubi @ Sep 30 2008, 10:02 AM)
But for me the main problem i have when it comes to liscensed animes is DVD region. Im in the United Kingdom so i need Region 2 DVDs, but all american liscensed DVDs come out on Region 1 and even then there isnt a garuntee that the series wil be released Region 2 eg. Girls Bravo, AIR, Kanon 2006, DBZ. It took bloody long enough for Haruhi get released region 2, but its £30+ for a DVD which has 3 episodes.

So in other words i need to buy a multi region DVD player, problem is very few of the ones ive seen, say that its Region 1, many say region 1, but inactual fact they are only region 1 if you input a code (which i still dont know where to get hold of).

If you buy your DVD player online you can get some regionless players. DVD players aren't expensive these days so if you can afford an to buy a whole anime series you can get a regionless DVD player. wink.gif You do raise a good point however. There are plenty of anime series that are only released in America and never make it to Europe. This will alienate many European fans as their exposure to anime becomes rather limited. Without fansubs it's doubtful the anime community will grow in this regions as their simply isn't enough places that broadcast anime. It's another difference between the Hollywood and anime industry. The Hollywood industry does not have problems with distribution as everyone is exposed to these movies (be it in the cinema or TV). That is not the case for anime.


#19 Megiddo

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 12:01 AM

Not to mention that most PC DVD drives are regionless, or can be hacked to be so. So it wouldn't be so hard to buy the R1, and then burn it to a R2 DVD.

I had to do this for the movie Battle Royale. There is no R1 version available, so I bought the R2 disc and then burned it to an R1 DVD and was able to watch my Battle Royale ^^

#20 Hiasubi

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (Megiddo @ Oct 01 2008, 01:01 AM)

I had to do this for the movie Battle Royale. There is no R1 version available, so I bought the R2 disc and then burned it to an R1 DVD and was able to watch my Battle Royale ^^

You sure, ive got a copy of the Battle Royale movie and mines 'Any Region' so i didnt have to do that. The same goes for both the DN Movies there both 'All Regions'

But yeah your right i could buy the region 1s and burn them to R2, but is it really worth going through all that hassel for a DVD?

Id be so much more content if all the anime released we 'All Region' dvds, its like living through hell hoping that Geass goes over to Region 2.

So since we cant get them we have to rely on over chanels to show anime, one problem very few do

In England the only British channels that show anime are:

Anime Centeral: Only shows anime from 9pm till 5am, but it only shows Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell, it did show Bleach instead of CB, but ince it stopped airing in the US and was replaced with DN its hasnt been seen over here since.

Jetix: Shows Naruto but only as far as season 4, it occasionaly shows Shaman King

Cartoon Network 2: Shows endless repeats of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl.

So unless we are on Virgin instead of Sky, in |England our anime veiwing is VERY limited.

So this is why Fansubs are important to Englands anime base imo.

And since many seires dont get Region 2ed, we suffer even more.






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