Jump to content


Photo

20 years in prison for manga


  • Please log in to reply
92 replies to this topic

#1 mamori

mamori

    -sama

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1353 posts
  • Interests:anime, mythology, writing, geology

Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:15 AM

http://www.animenews...ndley/carl-horn

In the above editorial, we are presented with an interesting topic. a man who had ordered some manga and had it mailed to him had his package inspected, where it was found to contain "obscene" material. quotes from one of the lawyers noted that the content in question was Yaoi, and that the obscene content specifically was that it featured an "apparently" underage character, based on a lack of pubic hair.

Now, I for one do get a bit disturbed by any kind of Yaoi, let alone the shota rape stuff (which we have no indication that this specific material went that far). HOWEVER, I also believe that our freedom of speech and expression is of the utmost importance, and that no person should be held accountable for anything that does not harm others. In this case, that would be a manga which was only intended to be read in the privacy of his own home.

Thus, this begs the question, "are obscenity laws unconstitutional?" Now I by NO means argue be any type of expert of the law, but I do know what I have been taught about the amendments, and the spirit they were intended for. In this case, it is the freedom of free speech and expression granted in the first amendment. Of course there is the argument that these freedoms have their limits. But what are, or rather, SHOULD those limits be? The most commonly cited example is that it is not protected speech to shout "fire" in a crowded theater if there is none, thus implying that the one yelling had malicious intent in intending to get the crowd into a situation where they may INJURE each other. So given this example, we may conclude that we have a freedom of speech and expression so long as we do not use it to harm people.

However, how does something that is obscene hurt anyone? We'll use the issue at hand, that of Virtual Child Porn. Now I'll be the first to say pornography of REAL children is horrible, and anyone who has produced said material SHOULD be thrown in jail and added to sexual offender list. For those who purchase/"enjoy" such material, I don't agree that they should be jailed simply for possession, but should definately be required to partake in psychological evaluations and treatment if deemed necessary. After all, last I checked simply being a pedophile was not a crime, but acting on those impulses was.

So what of VCP (virtual child porn), or in our case, manga/anime which features minors ("children") engaging in sex, or at least in "sexually suggestive" poses? Is this protected by the first amendment? I argue: Yes. Why? Because as of yet we do not have evidence that links the creation/possession of said material to the harm of anyone, let alone children. In fact, I recall some studies which found the opposite to be true, that this material allowed for an outlet for these impulses. Furthermore, there is the argument that the vast majority of those who enjoy this manga VCP, or "loli" manga, are not in any way pedophiles. They have absolutely NO interest in real children. Especially on this site I sure we have our fair share of loli lovers. And I'm equally sure that of those people, they are no more danger to children for their interest in lolicon.

So to ask if VCP should be illegal, we must ask why CP is illegal. The answer to that it harms the children involved in it's creation. However, as this same point CAN NOT be true for VCP as there are no persons actually harmed in it's creation, then it should seem obvious that VCP does not meet this restriction of the first amendment.

It is under this same logic that I question obscenity laws. While we may find "obscene" books, pictures, comics, music, movies etc. to be in poor taste, or even horrifying to witness (damn you guro, damn you! >_<), what gives us the right to forbid and even jail someone for not only their creation, but simple possession? These materials do not harm anyone in their production, and the argument that people who see such thisg are more likely to carry out that acts portrayed, whether they be in word, song or print, is questionable at best, and laughable more realistically. The more honest truth being that those people who do imitate such things did not do so BECAUSE of the material, they just used it as a guideline for something they were going to do anyway. And this brings up back to the idea that the law should not punish people for their thoughts, their speech, their expressions, or even their possession, unless these things directly cause harm, and thus violate the rights of others.

This goes back Evelyn Beatrice Hall's famous "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Or in our case we may modify it to "I disapprove of what you read/whack off too, but I will defend to the death your right to read/whack off to it!" XD

so, what do you all think?


user posted image user posted image user posted image user posted image

COI/Claimed
Kohaku: Tsukihime
Satsuki: Tsukihime
Sakura: Fate/Stay Night
Hanyuu: Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
Suigintou: Rozen Maiden
Tsuruya: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Wilhelmina: Shakugan no Shana
Kuroi-Sensei: Lucky Star
Horo: Spice and Wolf
Fuko Ibuki: Clannad
Maria: Hayate no Gotoku!


#2 Primula

Primula

    -プリムラ こいびと

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1937 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Primula's house ^_^
  • Interests:Anime, loli(lol), origami, game, drawing expecailly anime girl, computers, etc... making animated sig
    Girls in anime characteristic that I usually like. Kuudere, Tsundere,& certain unique type

Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:45 AM

I totally agree with you just said simily it not hurting anyone one so what wrong unless u act on it >.>

i might add something later sleepy
<!-- isHtml:1 --><!-- isHtml:1 --> Posted Image<br/><br/><br />
<span><input type=button value="Show Spoiler" onclick="this.style.display='none'; this.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('span')[0].style.display = '';" style="font-size:10px"><span style="display: none"> Posted Image </span></span> <br/><br/><br />
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://boards.fansub...CODE=4&MID=9346' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Posted Image</a><br/><br/><br />
Come check out the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://boards.fansub...pic=1429&st=100' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'><span style='color:green'>Gif Thread</span></a><br/><br/><br />
Ecchi Pic 1 Torrent...<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.datorrent..._pics_1.torrent' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Torrent Link</a> Ecchi Pic 2 TORRENT!! <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.datorrent...i Pic 2.torrent' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Torrent Link</a> Ecchi Pic 1-3 <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.fileqube....IAGnWeevm186537' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>YEAH!!!</a>

#3 Bulletspawn

Bulletspawn

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 45 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 09:00 AM

I completely agree, whatever you do in your own home is your private time. You can't arrest somebody for doing something you deem 'obscene' anything can be deemed obscene depending on your point of view, who is the governing power that determines what are and what aren't acceptable hobbies? I would understand perhaps if he was involving other people (like showing his 'obscene' material to minors). Are we going to arrest a man simply because he likes manga? if so why don't we just arrest gays as well I consider homosexuality to be pretty 'obscene'; why stop there? America is a christian nation so surely they can't approve of people like hindu's, buddhists, etc, etc.

seriously people where do we draw the line between those who are wrong and those who we don't like?

#4 franzoir

franzoir

    -the smooth, the suave, and the shrewd

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1610 posts
  • Location:Where the wind is ...
  • Interests:Politics

Posted 13 December 2008 - 11:14 AM

Classic argument about rights versus responsibility. Well i would sympathise with the state because they have an unenvious task of preventing crime without being too intrusive on peoples rights.

In a way, i would argue for the state for the simple fact that the guy should of been aware that what is acceptable in Japan may not be acceptable in America. People must be spatially aware and just because this guy had 'thought' he had privacy doesnt make it morally permissible in their own home. Unfortunately he was found out, and given children are a sensitive issue especially in western countries he should of expected it. When it comes to children constitutional law seems to be thrown out the window as with terrorism.

Anywho, we all have a right to do whatever we want but we also must be made accountable for our actions otherwise we might as well live in a lawless society. However when it comes to things like child porn people would prefer a miniority report style of policing. You have to weigh it up, reading yaoi manga worth going to jail for any amount of time, i think not.
user posted image

Summertime has come and gone...all used up with wishful thinking

#5 Gustav1976

Gustav1976

    -sama

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1825 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 03:35 PM

In an ideal world the rights of the individual would be preserved no matter what laws were in place. However an other facet of the incident should also be examined and that is the naivity of the law regarding entertainment material from a global society. Whilst I personallty am not interested in Yoai or underage individuals it could also be pointed out that due to the style of illustration the individual in the manga may or may not have been underage as it is still common practice in Japanese illustration and anime to NOT have pubic hair regardless of age of the character.
This being said I would have to comment that whilst it is an uneviable job of the law and it may get it wrong sometimes, laws are made by people and it is upto individuals as well as society to act responsibly.
Also criticism apart as society developes and culture meet each other increasingly often laws also need to evolve. People and societyies change and laws need to keep up with this or become ridiculous if not obsolete.
Bullet has a good point though that ethically and it a vary dangerous area to consider with the rights of the individual. It is ironic in this instance considering that the American Constitution states that "Every person is entitled to the pursuit of happiness so long as that pursuit does not affect the happiness of others."
(If I'm misquoting correct me) Also this is the same country that has only just started it's act together regarding racism.
Laws are possibly societies greatest strength as well as it's greatest weakness as every law can be interpretted in several ways depending on the point of view of the one doing the interpretting.
In this instance both Bullet and Franz make the best points I can think of. Whilst governing bodies have the duty to prevent the abuse of others and so in one way need to keep up with the rest of the world, it is still the responsibility of an indicual living within a society to know and understand what is acceptable within the society they choose to live in.
Every person is responsible for their own actions in the end (and in an ideal world for the actions of those around them also).

#6 monsta

monsta

    -the bee's knees

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2252 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 13 December 2008 - 05:22 PM

While 20 years does seem rather harsh for looking at virtual child porn, from my understanding it is illegal in America. The only criteria I believe is that the character depicted must look like a minor. If that were the case then he could be charged for paedophilia charges. I guess the main debate comes whether these laws are right.

If the material viewed involved actual children then I would say the court did the right thing. The only bit I might disagree would be the length of the sentence. Even if the viewer was not responsible for the production of the material by paying for it they are actively supported the industry which leads to the suffering of children. Assuming Gustav's quote is true:
QUOTE (Gustav1976 @ Dec 13 2008, 03:35 PM)
Every person is entitled to the pursuit of happiness so long as that pursuit does not affect the happiness of others.

Then this act is unconstitutional and cannot be allowed. In any case one should not be able to pursue happiness if it adversely effects the well being of another person. This is clearly the case for child pornography.

As for virtual child pornography, that is a more controversial area. Virtual child pornography doesn't actually harm any children. It is said that such material may actually increase the likelihood of people committing acts of paedophilia. Then there's the association with real child pornography (hence all the obscenity claims). I guess that's the biggest points made against it. But should it be banned for those reasons?

In my opinion no. This is because no one is harmed in the production of the material. The content may offend a lot of people but I'm sure the same could be said for pornography (particularly gay pornography) yet those things are perfectly legal. So it's not a good enough reason to ban it.

It's unfortunate that this man was sentenced to 20 years in prison but with the current laws in place I think it would be difficult for the courts to reverse the decision.

#7 InuyashaX

InuyashaX

    -Hokage

  • Kouhais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1244 posts
  • Location:Canada, Ontario

Posted 13 December 2008 - 05:44 PM

Whoa since when is it illegal to make/watch virtual child porn??? I'm not a fan of it but I swear I see it all over the net. I never knew it was illegal wow... 20 years!? OJ Simpson got less time than thatXD Wheres the logic? That guy should appeal, totally unfair.
"Because I have failed so many times, that is why I succeed" -Michael Jordan
A group of enthusiasts shall shed light upon the world"- Fansubbers United
Click here for the rules regarding FTV:)

My definition of "now"
Now is that little voice in your head that's telling you now is now but it's really now past 1 minute in reality but now is not now right now so now will come a little after later then a little before after at a time period now at the end of the day where now is consistent with your mind at a moment where now is now but still not truly now.

#8 Dragon_Lord

Dragon_Lord

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 38 posts
  • Location:somewhere on earth
  • Interests:nothing needed to be said here :P

Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:02 PM

ok after reading this i have been like wtf the entire time. i can't believe that the courts would even think of putting him in jail for having it unless, very unlikely case, he planed on make a cp of his own and was using the manga as a guideline. i really think this person shouldn't be in jail but then again the courts have done even dumber things before. now if i was the person going to jail i would be pissed beyond belief but that's me really there is nothing we can do about this at least i can't see anything we could do.

#9 Kit-Tsukasa

Kit-Tsukasa

    -desu

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10929 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Watching anime since childhood.
    I wait for quality releases. Need recommendations? Just ask.

    Lurked Fansub TV since November 2004
    Joined Fansub TV Forums in December 2005
    Sempai in June 2006
    Fansub TV Team in October 2006
    10000th post in July 2011
    Fansub TV Leader in January 2011

    Interested in revitalizing Fansub TV Forums. Support requested.

Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:45 PM

This is one thing that irritated me a lot on one of the forum posts: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime"

In what way did this guy do any crime. As stated before, what he does in his home is his own private manner. Sure he's ordering explicit manga and that the government can step in, but when ordering it from a legitimate company, why should he be the one who gets in trouble, especially when there's no law stating that he can't order/buy manga.

Now regarding the child pornography part, virtual child porn is a touchy subject with a huge gray area. What I find unfair/unjust is the government does not have a set bar for this area. This subject has come on so many times now and never decided to revise it (Japan on the other hand is taking it too far as to banning child porn and a lot of eroge games entirely, or were attempting to at some point dry.gif). All they end up doing is throwing them in jail for something they "did" in a gray area. The Negima manga had the same issue a couple years except that was an ecchi issue....in that case you might as well just ban the selling of all anime in the US. Makes it easier for fansubbers dry.gif

#10 mamori

mamori

    -sama

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1353 posts
  • Interests:anime, mythology, writing, geology

Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:48 PM

just to clarify that the man has not been sentenced yet, his actual trial does not start until Feb. I believe, and 20 years is the MAX sentence he could receive.

but as has been said by myself and others, it's not the length of the possible jail time, but the fact that one could serve ANY jail time for possession of a manga/anime/book/CD, regardless of it's depictions.

the claims that watching/reading vcp/lolicon increases chances of acting on those impulses are baseless, and actuall statistical and psychological studies show that the opposite to be more true, as the material allows for a release within the safety of their own home (both for the safety of the individual, and the safety of the children).

And again, I stress that being a pedophile is NOT illegal, but only acting on those impulses is. It would be like not letting me live in a neighborhood with women because I find them attractive. Just because I find them attractive does not mean I'm going to attack them, sexually or otherwise.

And as most lolicons I've spoken to have noted, and as those of us who are of the infamous 2D-con variety, those tastes usually do NOT transfer to real life.
user posted image user posted image user posted image user posted image

COI/Claimed
Kohaku: Tsukihime
Satsuki: Tsukihime
Sakura: Fate/Stay Night
Hanyuu: Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
Suigintou: Rozen Maiden
Tsuruya: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Wilhelmina: Shakugan no Shana
Kuroi-Sensei: Lucky Star
Horo: Spice and Wolf
Fuko Ibuki: Clannad
Maria: Hayate no Gotoku!


#11 Kit-Tsukasa

Kit-Tsukasa

    -desu

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10929 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Watching anime since childhood.
    I wait for quality releases. Need recommendations? Just ask.

    Lurked Fansub TV since November 2004
    Joined Fansub TV Forums in December 2005
    Sempai in June 2006
    Fansub TV Team in October 2006
    10000th post in July 2011
    Fansub TV Leader in January 2011

    Interested in revitalizing Fansub TV Forums. Support requested.

Posted 13 December 2008 - 07:05 PM

QUOTE (mamori @ Dec 13 2008, 11:48 AM)
just to clarify that the man has not been sentenced yet, his actual trial does not start until Feb. I believe, and 20 years is the MAX sentence he could receive.

but as has been said by myself and others, it's not the length of the possible jail time, but the fact that one could serve ANY jail time for possession of a manga/anime/book/CD, regardless of it's depictions.

the claims that watching/reading vcp/lolicon increases chances of acting on those impulses are baseless, and actuall statistical and psychological studies show that the opposite to be more true, as the material allows for a release within the safety of their own home (both for the safety of the individual, and the safety of the children).

And again, I stress that being a pedophile is NOT illegal, but only acting on those impulses is. It would be like not letting me live in a neighborhood with women because I find them attractive. Just because I find them attractive does not mean I'm going to attack them, sexually or otherwise.

And as most lolicons I've spoken to have noted, and as those of us who are of the infamous 2D-con variety, those tastes usually do NOT transfer to real life.

regardless, the outcome of the sentence will change the general American's view on manga and that's what ticks me off the most since people will begin to perceive manga as an obscene piece of work. dry.gif ...and that pedophiles in the society will mostly be otakus, which as you said, and I agree that most of the 2-D lolicons don't transfer to real life

#12 monsta

monsta

    -the bee's knees

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2252 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 13 December 2008 - 07:35 PM

QUOTE (Kit-Tsukasa @ Dec 13 2008, 07:05 PM)
regardless, the outcome of the sentence will change the general American's view on manga and that's what ticks me off the most since people will begin to perceive manga as an obscene piece of work. dry.gif  ...and that pedophiles in the society will mostly be otakus, which as you said, and I agree that most of the 2-D lolicons don't transfer to real life

I doubt the trial will generate enough interest to change public opinion of anime/manga (at least in a major way). A few more people more people may regard anime/manga as obscene but I doubt it will have large consequences (it's not a ground breaking case). If the guy possessed hundreds of manga containing pornography then it maybe different but if it's just one manga I doubt it will make major news.

QUOTE (mamori @ Dec 13 2008, 06:48 PM)
the claims that watching/reading vcp/lolicon increases chances of acting on those impulses are baseless, and actuall statistical and psychological studies show that the opposite to be more true, as the material allows for a release within the safety of their own home (both for the safety of the individual, and the safety of the children).

I agree, I remember reading something about this. It kinda like that argument that watching pornography increases the chances of someone committing a sex crime. There is no clear evidence for this, and the opposite may even be true. Considering a lot of people watch pornography, and there is no established link, it's hard to imagine how lolicon/hentai will increase the likelihood of committing sex crimes. Hentai doesn't even involve real people so its affects (if any) should be less than real porn.

#13 Gustav1976

Gustav1976

    -sama

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1825 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:09 PM

On a semi-light note you should all read the post my on the ANN forum by Cloud992345 on page 3, it's quite amusing and sorta poignant.
After reading the actual article like a goodboy it seems the guy being prosecuted is NOT being for anything other than the fact that he ordered it. Read that statement carefully, it means YES he paid for the book, YES he ordered it to be sent to him in the mail but NO he hasn;t even actually read it yet. He came under investigation/prosecution before the manga even reached him.
That seems rather odd, however the implications if he gets sentenced at all would eventually be that the American government will be deciding what mangas it's citizens will have access to in the long run.
That means it wont matter what you think is a reasonable manga or not it will have been decided for you by your government. What's that? You want to buy the manga of Elfen Lied, sorry that's been banned. You own anime DVD's of Elfen Lied?! I'm afraid we're going to have to confiscate your manga and anime collection and check it all for "obscene" content for your own protection of course.

#14 antabaka84

antabaka84

    -san

  • Kouhais
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Location:Rochester, NY
  • Interests:Hmm... Well since this is a Anime forum my interest would be.<br><br>Goth-loli-tsundere-nekomimi-mecha-musume-slice-of-life-desu type.

Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:14 PM

These kinds of cases really bother me. It's a waste of time and money. The making of said material is from pen and paper, no real person was forced or obliged to take part in it, only the mind of the creator. Now weather we agree if yuri, yaoi whatever it is, is acceptable or not should have no context or meaning unless the person is viewing this material in a public place where others can be exposed.


QUOTE (Kit-Tsukasa @ Dec 13 2008, 01:05 PM)
regardless, the outcome of the sentence will change the general American's view on manga and that's what ticks me off the most since people will begin to perceive manga as an obscene piece of work. dry.gif  ...and that pedophiles in the society will mostly be otakus, which as you said, and I agree that most of the 2-D lolicons don't transfer to real life


I already feel Manga and Anime is perceived poorly in America. mad.gif Most people I talk to either think of Anime as rape and tentacles, or really childish and immature. Why? because it's a stigma, oh it's from Japan it's gotta be some crazy s*&t. Even in my group of friends the Anime issue is taboo, when trying to explain to them and inviting them to watch a episode of something I think they would be interested in, so they can understand the culture of Anime, they are not interested and still think of it as "porn"

Oh and manga wise, American comics show just as much T&A, the only difference is usually the characters are older looking because of the "western" style of the art.
user posted image

#15 Gustav1976

Gustav1976

    -sama

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1825 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 09:55 PM

I just wanted to add this as a side note as it's almost related but apparently Unicef is or has been trying to ban loli's as well as swimwear in manga and anime.
That would beam no more Toradora, no more Rosario+Vampire, no more Kemeko, all our ecchi would disappear sad.gif

#16 Bulletspawn

Bulletspawn

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 45 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 10:52 PM

I understand how child porn is illegal (supporting the industry of abusing children is baaad) but virtual child porn? Even if you say it can cause real life sex crimes (which i'm pretty sure it doesn't) aren't we just arresting people for things they haven't done and might not do yet?
This is all very minority report; I've seen some dodgy looking people in my area does this mean I should have them arrested? Of course not! If you have groundless suspicions of crime this does not warrant a prison sentence. Whatever happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?

#17 mamori

mamori

    -sama

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1353 posts
  • Interests:anime, mythology, writing, geology

Posted 13 December 2008 - 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Gustav1976 @ Dec 13 2008, 03:55 PM)
I just wanted to add this as a side note as it's almost related but apparently Unicef is or has been trying to ban loli's as well as swimwear in manga and anime.
That would beam no more Toradora, no more Rosario+Vampire, no more Kemeko, all our ecchi would disappear sad.gif

I heard about that too sad.gif. UNICEF won't be getting any of MY pennies!
user posted image user posted image user posted image user posted image

COI/Claimed
Kohaku: Tsukihime
Satsuki: Tsukihime
Sakura: Fate/Stay Night
Hanyuu: Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
Suigintou: Rozen Maiden
Tsuruya: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Wilhelmina: Shakugan no Shana
Kuroi-Sensei: Lucky Star
Horo: Spice and Wolf
Fuko Ibuki: Clannad
Maria: Hayate no Gotoku!


#18 tron

tron

    -san

  • Kouhais
  • PipPipPip
  • 223 posts

Posted 14 December 2008 - 12:25 AM

Just shows how ridiculous our justice systems are, seriously needs a revamp to get with the times, ok I could understand real life abusive pics, but fictional stuff, with any form of media be it games, movies or comics/books in possession (unless selling illegally) should definately not be considered an offense. There's a reason why we have classifications for content, it's up to the individual whether they purchase such content, not some old fashioned judge that probably doesn't know how to use a computer properly.

I guess it wouldn't effect me, unless they banned all manga or anime, but it still pisses me off that one person is able to push a close minded absurd view on others through a system that is supposed to protect us.

#19 Megiddo

Megiddo

    -dono

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 770 posts

Posted 14 December 2008 - 01:23 AM

What I really find scary is the fact that in two months the entire precedent not only for virtual-child-porn, but also any manga/anime (let's face it, they're linked) that could be considered "obscene" will be set in stone. Oh, and the people who are given charge of such a paramount precedent for our tastes? Just 9 randomly selected people. So yes. It's not going to be someone who is clearly informed of the laws that may or may not infringed, but rather 9 people who are will most-likely not have any sort of connection to manga/anime nor have any idea just how popular and common-place lolicon/shoutacon/yaoi/whatever is these days. They will be ruling on whether or not whatever is found in this guy's collection (not just what he ordered mind you, but whatever was in his posession) is obscene.

Who is to say what is obscene or not? For that we have the 1970s-age Miller test, part of which has a condition which states that the item "has no artistic value".

So, honestly, I'm not looking forward to this trial. Even with the help of the CBLDF, it will be extremely difficult to sway the opinions of jurors if the prosecution shows them explicit depictions of children (imaginary mind you) who are engaging in sexual acts.

#20 itachi377

itachi377

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 15 December 2008 - 08:25 PM

If this gets through. Then There must be a ban on all violent action movies produced by Hollywood. Each one of them would make people go out and shot people because it increases thier chances of acting on those impulses. Just Ridiculus.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users