[MODERATOR's NOTE: This thread resulted from a split from this thread. http://boards.fansub.tv/index.php?showtopi...40&#entry121231
Please refer to those posts if you are looking for the quoted text]
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)Yup. Quite true. I'm a math prof at a community college. I have a wife and four children. The oldest is 19 and the youngest is 7. As for being "more polite," well, politeness is always nice, but you can bet I don't always get it from my older children (though they usually do quite well). Come to think of it, my 7-year-old is often not polite. She is quite presumptuous, although usually in a loving way.
Good to have such a wise person here!
And I actually pretty impolite to my father often,despite the fact I love him(and my mother!) really much,and I told myself again and again not to be rude to him,but I guess his attitude does get to me at times.I'm not that really good a person after all...please note this...
Anyway,back into our topic.First of all,I agree that the US didn't enter the WW2 for the Jewish sake,and I don't think that they enter the war with that great bad intention and such,it's a war after all.In such state of confusion,we were dragged along before we knew it,and sometimes even forget what exactly we've been fighting for.It's more like for political's sake,but it's too bad many were sacrificed for it.So,the things of the past isn't what that I was really concerned about here,but rather the present.We can't changed the past after all,just need to remember them so it'll act as our guidance for our future acts.But the present doesn't seem to pleasant that I can agree with without saying anything,specifically about how US governments see things and act,more specifically concerning the Jewish.I'm not being specifically dislike or even hate the Jewish that I arise many questions about them time after time,but it's just many things about them and their acts that left me wondering.
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)I hope this helps you understand things just a little bit. The US and others are protective of the Jews because they swore that no more would they be subject to extermination as a people.
You may indeed accuse the US of hypocrisy. It would be true. After all, there is a genocide occurring in Darfur, and in other places in the world. It is true that we have not met all such terrible things with consistent or appropriate measures. But even had we willed to, could we have? Iraq has taught us that there are some hatreds far beyond our ability to restrain.It's not really beyond restrain rtgmath-san.Sorry but I have to object to that.It's more like they(US) have been ignoring to understand the cause of the hatred.Hating is not something we human likes,but we always subjected to it.Not many could abolish the reason for them hating by themselves,but others,more importantly those who have cause the hatred have to help them get rid of those.An apology is one of the simplest and easiest way.Have you heard any word of an apology by the US government for killing so much of the Iraqis,or at least become the reason behind it,rtgmath-san?No.Almost none.Even if they were,it's just after the world pushed(so Hard!) for them to do so,and even that lacks sincerity,if there's any at all.(But they often says sorry to the US' army fallen soldiers's family....)
Why would offering such a simple word of an apology can be so hard for them?Simple.They never thinks they have done anything wrong for killings the Iraqis.At least that's what the Iraqis thought so,and thus subjected them to their hatred.Times and times,the US' medias only stating the casualties for the Iraqis caused by their bombing and such as collateral damage and refuse to say sorry.Your family has been killed,and yet you only heard the killers says 'collateral damage' over and over again,you can't help to think "Huh,so we're nothing to them...".They can save this people only by a sincere apology,but they don't,and thus creating lots and lots of insurgeons there.You get my point,rtgmath-san?Even Osama bin Laden first step into this looking at such sufferings the Bosnians Muslims(and of course Muslim's throughout the world) have gone through while the world was watching(looks like leisurely) and do nothing.So,he despised them all and decides to save those poor people by his own hand,thinking the lives of the innocents were way important for him rather than the killers and those who he see act as the accomplice,except for me he himself have lose sight of his real vision and go killing the innocents himself.Why do you think such a rich person(billionaire!) would trouble himself living in such a damp place and fight a war that seems impossible?Evil person only do things for his personal worldly gains,yet Osama doesn't really have anything to gain,but rather throw himself into trouble(and throw LOTs of money,yet with almost nothing to gain in return),while he could have live leisurely with his money,only believing he is doing the right thing.Of course,many of you never know about this or even to try to learn it,while it would be so easy if you stop for awhile and think about it in exchange.Ok,that's long.....but keep in mind that I'm NOT his supporter....
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)And yet there has been no other people quite like the Jews, whose Father begat three of the world's greatest monotheistic religions -- Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Like it or not -- like them or not -- their history and ours are intertwined irrevocably.Yeah,of course.But our Great Prophet(Muhammad p.b.u.h.) doesn't have any in his teachings copied from the other two.It's all revelations send to him by God.And in a sense,Jewish does help Islam's progress though they never intended to.
-In Madinah,or previously Yathrib,there's bunch of influential clan of Jewish(Bani Khuraizah,Bani Nadhir and Bani Qainuqa') and they've built a wall for themselves there(they always did this,see what they're building in Palestine now?),always threatening and scaring the Arabs that they'll killed them all once the Last Prophet were sended down to them(they think the prophet would be one of them).So,when our Prophet preached to some group of Medinah's young men(6 of them),they have no trouble accepting it since they've heard about the Last prophet from the Jews over and over again.At first some of them maybe do so out of hatred for the Jews,and just happy knowing the last Prophet were actually one of them instead of the Jews,but later discovers they're so lucky to have converted into the beautiful Islam.-
So that's it.
Have some work to do,will edit this later.
Here comes the edit:
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)That US soldiers did some horrible things in Vietnam is well known. Some people were eventually prosecuted over some of it. However, these things were not "genocide."
We need to be specific with our terms. Genocide is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation." We were engaged in a political war, not an ethnic one. We were killing "Communists", not necessarily Vietnamese. The objective was not to kill a people or nation. We were not out to destroy North Vietnam or to exterminate its people. We were there to establish a democracy in South Vietnam.
Yes, there were still large amounts of dead as a result. The war in Vietnam was ill-conceived. It was a reaction against Communist China. Please remember that we'd had quite a lot of bad experience with totalitarian regimes in WWII. The determination to spread democracy was a natural response to such experience, if we now see that it was not always the best one. There had been initial successes -- Japan, South Korea, Germany. Successes came harder the longer in. Well,guess I could agree with you on that
And guess I use the wrong word/term there...my apologies if this by anyway have offended you...BUT!(here comes the all-timer but...),democracy isn't the only correct path for the world.If you looks at it carefully,it's clear that democracy itself now have become a mere political tools for US to spread their influence throughout the world...Communist,capitalist,there're just bunch of people who have neglected the most important thing,religion,and of course,God.Really,those who've neglected God's Words usually won't do really beautiful things for the world.The path God has shown us were no doubt were the BEST,but still,God have never restricted us to only one way of ruling(in this case democracy),but just give the guideline that as long as the way weren't disastrous or against His words,any kind of ruling a government would be fine.Well,not pointing the previous Vietnam having a good way of ruling though... But,US' gov. have use democracy as a reason for them spreading lies and waging war here and there.I don't mind if it's indeed for justice,but so far their intention were indeed arguable....
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)As part of those who won WWII, the US gained a rather large ego complex, sustained by huge economic gains. Now, as the rest of the world is on par with the US economically (or gaining rapidly), the US is finding out that it is not omnipotent. It is a hard place to be in, and some people are never going to "get it."
Please understand. The US has done plenty wrong. But for most people in the US (including many leaders) the decisions are made in large part due to a self-deluded ignorance.Yeah,surely i understand rtgmath-san.You're right and I was well-aware of that."GOOD" and "BAD" has never been restricted on only a certain group of people.Of course,they're always good people and bad people among us,be it they are Jews,Christians,or even my fellow Muslims.That's just a law of those called Human.But I sure do hope that the Americans,and people around the world understand this themselves,and not looking at us as All-BAD people,and even think Islam promoting violence in any way(ISLAM means PEACE!).Even when Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h.) was still alive,there are some Christians and Jews have converted to Islam and devoted fully to Islam,and were loved by our prophet(p.b.u.h) too.May God blessed them!
Sorry...my post was long...and my apologies if any part of it have somewhat offended you rtgmath-sa.I hope you'll write yet another good reply to this...
(Edit:and I hope Bold-sama or noob-sempai will too
)...
Regards,
ONCE AGAIN,ISLAM MEANS PEACE!!
Please refer to those posts if you are looking for the quoted text]
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)Yup. Quite true. I'm a math prof at a community college. I have a wife and four children. The oldest is 19 and the youngest is 7. As for being "more polite," well, politeness is always nice, but you can bet I don't always get it from my older children (though they usually do quite well). Come to think of it, my 7-year-old is often not polite. She is quite presumptuous, although usually in a loving way.
Anyway,back into our topic.First of all,I agree that the US didn't enter the WW2 for the Jewish sake,and I don't think that they enter the war with that great bad intention and such,it's a war after all.In such state of confusion,we were dragged along before we knew it,and sometimes even forget what exactly we've been fighting for.It's more like for political's sake,but it's too bad many were sacrificed for it.So,the things of the past isn't what that I was really concerned about here,but rather the present.We can't changed the past after all,just need to remember them so it'll act as our guidance for our future acts.But the present doesn't seem to pleasant that I can agree with without saying anything,specifically about how US governments see things and act,more specifically concerning the Jewish.I'm not being specifically dislike or even hate the Jewish that I arise many questions about them time after time,but it's just many things about them and their acts that left me wondering.
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)I hope this helps you understand things just a little bit. The US and others are protective of the Jews because they swore that no more would they be subject to extermination as a people.
You may indeed accuse the US of hypocrisy. It would be true. After all, there is a genocide occurring in Darfur, and in other places in the world. It is true that we have not met all such terrible things with consistent or appropriate measures. But even had we willed to, could we have? Iraq has taught us that there are some hatreds far beyond our ability to restrain.It's not really beyond restrain rtgmath-san.Sorry but I have to object to that.It's more like they(US) have been ignoring to understand the cause of the hatred.Hating is not something we human likes,but we always subjected to it.Not many could abolish the reason for them hating by themselves,but others,more importantly those who have cause the hatred have to help them get rid of those.An apology is one of the simplest and easiest way.Have you heard any word of an apology by the US government for killing so much of the Iraqis,or at least become the reason behind it,rtgmath-san?No.Almost none.Even if they were,it's just after the world pushed(so Hard!) for them to do so,and even that lacks sincerity,if there's any at all.(But they often says sorry to the US' army fallen soldiers's family....)
Why would offering such a simple word of an apology can be so hard for them?Simple.They never thinks they have done anything wrong for killings the Iraqis.At least that's what the Iraqis thought so,and thus subjected them to their hatred.Times and times,the US' medias only stating the casualties for the Iraqis caused by their bombing and such as collateral damage and refuse to say sorry.Your family has been killed,and yet you only heard the killers says 'collateral damage' over and over again,you can't help to think "Huh,so we're nothing to them...".They can save this people only by a sincere apology,but they don't,and thus creating lots and lots of insurgeons there.You get my point,rtgmath-san?Even Osama bin Laden first step into this looking at such sufferings the Bosnians Muslims(and of course Muslim's throughout the world) have gone through while the world was watching(looks like leisurely) and do nothing.So,he despised them all and decides to save those poor people by his own hand,thinking the lives of the innocents were way important for him rather than the killers and those who he see act as the accomplice,except for me he himself have lose sight of his real vision and go killing the innocents himself.Why do you think such a rich person(billionaire!) would trouble himself living in such a damp place and fight a war that seems impossible?Evil person only do things for his personal worldly gains,yet Osama doesn't really have anything to gain,but rather throw himself into trouble(and throw LOTs of money,yet with almost nothing to gain in return),while he could have live leisurely with his money,only believing he is doing the right thing.Of course,many of you never know about this or even to try to learn it,while it would be so easy if you stop for awhile and think about it in exchange.Ok,that's long.....but keep in mind that I'm NOT his supporter....
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)And yet there has been no other people quite like the Jews, whose Father begat three of the world's greatest monotheistic religions -- Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Like it or not -- like them or not -- their history and ours are intertwined irrevocably.Yeah,of course.But our Great Prophet(Muhammad p.b.u.h.) doesn't have any in his teachings copied from the other two.It's all revelations send to him by God.And in a sense,Jewish does help Islam's progress though they never intended to.
-In Madinah,or previously Yathrib,there's bunch of influential clan of Jewish(Bani Khuraizah,Bani Nadhir and Bani Qainuqa') and they've built a wall for themselves there(they always did this,see what they're building in Palestine now?),always threatening and scaring the Arabs that they'll killed them all once the Last Prophet were sended down to them(they think the prophet would be one of them).So,when our Prophet preached to some group of Medinah's young men(6 of them),they have no trouble accepting it since they've heard about the Last prophet from the Jews over and over again.At first some of them maybe do so out of hatred for the Jews,and just happy knowing the last Prophet were actually one of them instead of the Jews,but later discovers they're so lucky to have converted into the beautiful Islam.-
So that's it.
Have some work to do,will edit this later.
Here comes the edit:
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)That US soldiers did some horrible things in Vietnam is well known. Some people were eventually prosecuted over some of it. However, these things were not "genocide."
We need to be specific with our terms. Genocide is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation." We were engaged in a political war, not an ethnic one. We were killing "Communists", not necessarily Vietnamese. The objective was not to kill a people or nation. We were not out to destroy North Vietnam or to exterminate its people. We were there to establish a democracy in South Vietnam.
Yes, there were still large amounts of dead as a result. The war in Vietnam was ill-conceived. It was a reaction against Communist China. Please remember that we'd had quite a lot of bad experience with totalitarian regimes in WWII. The determination to spread democracy was a natural response to such experience, if we now see that it was not always the best one. There had been initial successes -- Japan, South Korea, Germany. Successes came harder the longer in. Well,guess I could agree with you on that
QUOTE (rtgmath-san)As part of those who won WWII, the US gained a rather large ego complex, sustained by huge economic gains. Now, as the rest of the world is on par with the US economically (or gaining rapidly), the US is finding out that it is not omnipotent. It is a hard place to be in, and some people are never going to "get it."
Please understand. The US has done plenty wrong. But for most people in the US (including many leaders) the decisions are made in large part due to a self-deluded ignorance.Yeah,surely i understand rtgmath-san.You're right and I was well-aware of that."GOOD" and "BAD" has never been restricted on only a certain group of people.Of course,they're always good people and bad people among us,be it they are Jews,Christians,or even my fellow Muslims.That's just a law of those called Human.But I sure do hope that the Americans,and people around the world understand this themselves,and not looking at us as All-BAD people,and even think Islam promoting violence in any way(ISLAM means PEACE!).Even when Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h.) was still alive,there are some Christians and Jews have converted to Islam and devoted fully to Islam,and were loved by our prophet(p.b.u.h) too.May God blessed them!
Sorry...my post was long...and my apologies if any part of it have somewhat offended you rtgmath-sa.I hope you'll write yet another good reply to this...
Regards,
ONCE AGAIN,ISLAM MEANS PEACE!!