People...

This begins with a short tale. Gather round.

At school today, I was walking to my locker, and past me strut a pack of gangsters. And while they pass, I hear, "I don't give a $%#&, If that kid wears those tight $%#@ pants again, I will KICK his &%$#ing ass!"

... and there I stood.

... in tight pants.

So, after trying to hide in my own shadow, I stalked my way away.

Then, later that same day (this day, If you keep track.), I'm walking to my car, minding my own buisiness, and behind me walk a pair of people. and they say to me, "Get a load of that $%@$ing gay emo fag."

I feel I must say, the only part of me that looks emo are my pants, otherwise, I'm just another ugly as sin human being.

So then I thought.

those people didnt even know me. And yet they felt the need to insult me for no reason.

Curious?

I was.

So here is my question.

ARE people good at heart? or are they (... or we, if you think about it), all Jackasses at heart?

And for this particular post, yes, I am by logic, saying I'm a jackass too, as well as you.,

Ignore that part.

So? what do you think? Has no one the CAHONIES to say stuff?

Nah, just kidding. Say something if you feel like it.

I personally don't think that humanity as a whole is good or evil or whatnot at heart. I don't think that there is some predetermined norm that people stray from due to their cirumstances.
Rather, I believe that people are simply neutral. They aren't good or bad naturally, they just are. As they grow up, the circumstances of the person's life - the events that occur, the interactions they participate in or see, the stories they are told - mold them into who they are. Even then, that person isn't good or evil, they just are.
'Good' and 'bad' are all in the eye of the beholder. What may be a grievous sin in my opinion could be an act of the greatest good in yours. That means that no person CAN be inherently good or evil at heart, because the idea of WHAT is good or evil changes depending on the society and the person - not to mention the circumstances of the deed (Killing someone is murder, even if the deed was done to save thousands of lives or as an act of mercy; yet it can be considered a great good if done for either of those reasons).

So yeah, people aren't good at heart, or 'jackasses' at heart. They just are. It is you and every other individual who judges that person to be good or not - and these views are often molded by the idea that society plants in you, which in turn was molded by the majority of individuals putting forth their opinions.

Well.... down at the heart of hearts? I'd say that everyone is a jackass, myself included. But then again, isn't that just life? We're all born as selfish little beings, and as we get older, we start to learn how to hide our own selfish little desires, or maybe take pleasure in helping someone attain theirs. Part of growing older is maturing enough to the point where you are able to realize that the world doesn't dance to your tune, and that, all things considered, you aren't any more special than the guy next to you. Or the guy 500 miles away from you for that matter.

So yea, we're all a bunch of miscreants when you strip away all our rationales and drive at the heart of our motivation. And yet, there are those who are just a little better than the rest of us, mainly because they are more mature and can hide their little impulses better than others. Now unfortunately, as with the aforementioned gang members, many people around us choose to not or are incapable of growing up. But hey, that's life. Dealing with people we really don't like.

I dunno if I'm sposed to edit my first... thing, or what, but anyways, using this one.

... hold that thought, gotta look up a name.

okay. Got it.

Well, dchaosblade, while you're technically correct, the BEST kind of right there is, I feel I must let something spout from my mouth like a ravenous mutant.

People, are rules. We are RULE monsters! We name and dub everything good, bad, in my case, gay (... among other things), another adjective. So. while saying that untill a rationally defined baseline is established that we cant have a correct idea OF that norm, is right, it's still not good enough for me.

Most people dont give a damn about what other people think, the people that DO have either been converted by 'members' or extorted by peer pressure.

or both.

As for me, no matter what I do, wont change anything. I have that kind of look, ya know?

well, getting off topic.

Saying that something cant be DEFINED as bad untill BAD is defined is for one, confusing as hell, and two, irrational in a sense. Since bad will never be defined in a way other than religious (pretty much, I think) There will never be a time until it can be defined. Since all it is, is an opinion.

So. While correct, you're still correct, but not... well, you still are.

BUT!

this is a place for opinions, I dont want spouted sensical data that is technically true, I want to hear what other people think. What THEY think. And while the CAPITALS in my sentence may make it look like I'm shouting, they are for emphesis, since I haven't the slightest how to make things italics.

... hope that made sense, cause now that I gander back, It looks looooong.

ya know. Now that I look at it. You did put your opinion.... meh... well, anyways....

jesus, this is pointless isn't it?

well I'll leave it anyways.

Hmph!

I think that there's some good in almost everyone but a lot of people don't seem to show it anymore. I mean, I probably would've thought your tight pants were weird or something but I wouldn't say anything about it and I'd just mind my own business. Like you said before, they didn't even know you and it's not like tight pants are really offensive at all. I think a lot of people (especially younger kids around age 15 and younger) try to make everything their business now. It really pisses me off. My own brother is a perfect example. If they see or hear or touch or any other sense something they don't like they'll automatically make it their business and get all defensive about it. It's almost sickening to see it happening because it's just not what human nature should be. I mean seriously, we're all animals whether we like it or not and the idea of being an animal is that we need to survive and that's our main function. That would include not doing stupid crap like making pointless stuff their business since that just takes away from their survival.

I think our entire race needs to take a look at our own behavior and make a drastic change before we all turn into mega losers. I'm not saying I'm exempt or you're exempt but at least we're a step closer than some people are. So I guess in the end of my rant, my point is that you really should try even harder to not let it bother you since there's a lot of people who're like that so it's best to learn to just shrug it off. That'll only make you a better person and boy will they feel like a fool when they finally realize that you don't care anymore about what they have to say. I hope they can learn how it feels soon because it would be sad to lose more people to their ways.

Hmmm... Generally, I think everyone has the capacity for both great good and great evil (if I may use such a dramatic term to describe the banal selfishness that can lead to hurtful behavior). People who are childish and insecure will find any possible reason to make someone else feel like an "outsider," because that's the only way they can feel like they're an "insider," whether it be on a personal level (high school bullies) or more cultural/institutional (xenophobia, homophobia, you get the idea). Yes, it's stupid and irrational. And yes, it's hurtful. I don't really know why people who don't even know you feel they have the right to make asinine comments. They probably want to ingratiate themselves to others in their peer group-- that's why people tend to make comments when they're in a group, as opposed to one-on-one. It goes back to that whole "reinforcing-the-US-vs.-THEM" mentality. But trust me duckling, what happens (socially) in high school don't mean sh*te in the real world*. School is really a weird social environment; you're basically forced to spend time with people you would normally avoid (due to their juvenile behavior, like your above example), many of whom have no interest in being there. Your only consolation is that after HS, you will probably never have to see any of those people again. After HS, you're free to tell the jerks of the world to slag off, basically, because you have the option of walking away. So I guess it's just a matter of biding your time. (Not very satisfactory, I know. Sorry.)

*Of course, it's very easy to say that once you're past it and you don't have to deal with the same idiots every day.

P.S. As a woman, can I say that boys in tight pants are awesome? *guess I just did*

P.P.S. To italicize, highlight the word(s) and then click the I button above the post window.

I agree with poonk with pretty much everything (partly because part of it was what I said). And once your out of school, you don't really have to deal with the idiots anymore. And a lot of what people do is simply to further themselves in a group, even if it isn't what they'd normally do in other circumstances (1 on 1).
VERY rarely will someone actually say that you are *insert slur here* unless there are others with them to hear and laugh/congratulate/push for more. Its even more rare when someone actually says it to your face rather than behind your back, even if they ARE in a group. Back when I was in High School, I would ignore the greater majority of insults, and stand up against a select few. If you actually stand there and confront them with it, they'll usually back down

P.S. For Italicizing words, you can click the I button as poonk said, or alternatively can use the code:CODE whatever you want to be italicized. Same for if you want it to be bold or underlined, just replace the I with a B or U respectively.

First of all, your talking about high school social life. It is full of people who have yet to mature, and people act immature over stupid things. People generally get more mature as they start planning for life after high school, but that usually doesn't happen till senior year.

In all honesty, why should they care what you are wearing? They are just bored and have nothing to talk about so they find something that is convenient around them. I don't really understand why teenagers have peer pressure issues, you shouldn't care what other people think about you, and they should just worry about themselves. I for one did not care about high school social status and I hung out with underclassmen because they were way more fun and had similar interests with me. I really don't regret my decision either, as many of my high school classmates are now losers living with their parents.

I kinda agree with Vith on this one that this case is just ignorant stupid high schoolers. I remember them in my highschool, though I never remember stuff like this happening in my highschool, but I know it does. Though I do remember thinking to myself while looking at other kids in really tight pants and thinking to myself, "wow, they look really stupid in those really tight pants" and mocking them to myself. But that would all stay in my head. I was never friends with those kids to begin with as I stayed in my circle of friends for the most part in highschool.

This does greatly remind me of something I had read on digg a week or so ago about a high school in Nova Scotia. An underclassmen had been bullied just cause he wore a pink shirt and some ignorant ass people were giving him a hard time. After 2 seniors heard about it the two of them decided to go to the rag shop and pick up a bunch of cheap pink shirts. Then the next day at school they handed them out to everyone that came so now most everyone was wearing a pink shirt. Kinda left the bully speechless at that point. Obviously those students are good at heart in some capacity.

I think people are a combination of things that ultimately shape the way they react to everyday situations.

People are followers and some are leaders. What type of leadership controls the followers? Does he look down on other people or does he sympathize with them? The followers usually take on the form and characteristics of their leader. They are people of follow the leader.

People are sometimes simply just a product of their upbringing. They receive ingrained traditions, cultures, and religious beliefs. Which in turn shapes what they feel is right and wrong and how they react to everyday situations. They are people of family upbringing.

People sometimes are their environment. They live in places where the way they learn to speak is different. They talk in slang so people make general assumptions about their intelligence. They might wear really expensive clothes and attend private institutions so they are considered elitist. Many people conform to their surroundings and become the environment they live in. They are people of the environment.

People are sometimes just who they are during a specific time. The world around us is always changing. One year one article of clothing is fashionable the next it is out of style. People change like this in a similar regard. People change leaders and the followers fundamental way of thinking changes. People leave their homes and meet a wider variety of people and their upbringing is brought into question. People move away from their environment and the clothing they wear and the way they speak changes. They are people who are swayed by the changing of time.

So basically people are a combination of the people they respect (leaders). They are people who hold steadfast to the beliefs they are taught and told to practice by their family (upbringing). They are people who conform to the ways and actions of their surroundings (environment). They are people who adapt and/or change throughout different periods of life (time).

I don't think people necessarily try to be good or bad they are just influenced by a combination of factors. Is what kind of person they become in their control? I would say for the most part YES but strong influences can make/become the actual person w/out them truly being aware of it.

Disclaimer: well also some people are simply WHORES they have no choice that is just what they are lmao V-XD...

Good and evil is such a strong word and shouldn't really be applied in this context. Yes what is good and what is evil is largely dependant on societies view on what is right and wrong. However there are some qualities that are almost universally seen as good traits. Such qualities include caring/helping each other, tolerance for one another etc. Why is that certain figures are almost seen as universally evil e.g Hitler, Mussolini or more recently Mugabe? I bet all these people wouldn't claim to be evil they are just helping the country move forward. The fact remains that people outside their immediate circle will think differently.

These people all share common traits namely oppressing the weak, no value on human life, greed etc. Why is it that most of the major religions teach similar values and morals? Yes there are differences in certain texts but they all generally encourage to uphold the same moral values hence what determines good and evil are pretty similar regardless of where you go. As seen the people mentioned above did more than pity name calling so to put them in the same league as this group would be a bit much.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say these people lack certain morals or even a backbone (after all they are willing to show contempt just to fit in their gang). Like others have said over time people change and their attitudes also so to say they will be like this forever would also be a bit premature.

QUOTE (dchaosblade @ Apr 09 2008, 03:40 AM)If you actually stand there and confront them with it, they'll usually back down
Try doing that in a bar, night bus or better still in the street. I am sure there will be some "interesting" encounters that could well end up with a visit to the hospital! This attitude is quite effective in school I give you that but in other scenarios it can be rather foolish... Then again this could be further proof that school life is quite different to real life.

I think this question differs from its more classical version "Is man naturally good or evil?" (which is, by nature, and idiotic quiestion). I think saying whether or not they're "nice" or "jackasses" is a completely different beast.

Hearing about "them gangstas and dem thugz" harassing the crap out of you, it really sounds like their hormonally-induced desires to fit in and act aggressive towards people different than them. These are really quite natural and primal urges people get. In those regards, yeah, many people could be jackasses at heart, but those people are quite often shallow, unintelligent, ignorant, contentious dead-heads with no sense of real purpose. Not everyone is like that.... at least not to the same extent, at least. Fear of difference, aggression, and basic social desires are a large driving force in many people's lives, it's got to be, it's pretty much encoded into our DNA. But fortunately, people (or, perhaps more accurately, MOST people) have brains, and these beautiful, glorious brains can do wonders to keep the "jackass within" down to a bare minimum. I would call the people with this kind of control the "nice" ones.

...but dang, there sure are a lot of ignorant Jake-aces in public education, and most (but definitely not all) of them tone down afterwards.

*high fives* all around!

This may or may not be a late reply.

Dunno.

Anyways.

Not that what y'all said hasn't made sense or helped in a way, it' just that... well, I knew all that already.

Of course, My views would be biased, being that I get some crap here and there, but that's not what this is about. That was just an example, not the baseline.

And as someone said. Yeah, people still are animals, we just have fancy gadgets and stuff.

If you think about it. Seems like we've devolved a few pegs. Considering that in the wild, animals dont harass other animals for no reason, it might be a petty reason, maybe even an incorrect assumption, but with people, there doesnt even have to be a reason.

I think we're just (its a swear sentence next, or as I call it, a Swentence) bastard coated bastards with bastard filling , and it's the people that have better control over influences that seem like... well, better people.

and normally, knowing that after high school would mean no more of them would make me somewhat happy.

But not at this moment.

I still have years left.

...damn years.

Even if I didn't, I dont much care for after high school life, seeing as I'd need a job, house, all that crap, I much prefer my current nonchalant lounging life that I love so much. (well, just that part, not the school part)

Something that I actually think's funny is that they're so much older than me, and act like they're Fing five.

Not even five, really. Five year olds are nice

... hope that Italics worked.

probably did.

... Good god. I've run out of things to say!

well. Honestly didn't expect as much response as I got. Thanks for the imput, here, take some props. (...hands you props) Buuuuuah!

Here's my two cents worth.

In my opinion people are arrogant and violent by nature, the ones who are not just control there basic nature. If you look at people the same way as you would any other animal, there are some basic differences. One would be social structures, but I remember reading or watching that primates and meerkats have the same social structure as humans. If one of them does not fit into a social class they are picked on and tormented for no real reason.

So in short it is just animals(including humans) nature to be a jackass to those who don't fit in. And being that humans are a social being they do not act without a group too often. They do change in the long run but only as an individual, you put they in a group and they start to act stupid again.

I do not believe that people will ever change for the better. For example my live story. Very condensed version. I was raised in a home with your standard social upbringing. I was taught to be nice to those around you, and to treat people how you wish to be treated. I still try to live by this. But I've changed, I came to hate people in general. Manly because I'm the not so standard nice guy, who would take a bullet for someone I don't know. Then gets stomped on by those you trust. My whole life I was treated like shit even by my friends, even now it fells like all my friends like me for is that I have a car and I am willing to drive their lazy asses to town. I've even been fired from a job because of the way I look. I don't fit in any social class so I am still treated like shit, things do not change as you get older they stay the same. Except in my case, it got worse. I know my story doesn't explain a lot but from my stand point it does.

QUOTE (EggBeast @ Apr 09 2008, 04:06 PM) I think this question differs from its more classical version "Is man naturally good or evil?" (which is, by nature, and idiotic quiestion). I think saying whether or not they're "nice" or "jackasses" is a completely different beast.

Eh... Why do you feel that it is a silly question?

QUOTE (Sanity Panda @ Apr 10 2008, 11:23 AM) Eh... Why do you feel that it is a silly question?
need I say? The question may raise several interesting things, but the question "Is mankind naturally good or evil?" has so many innate problems. Like Lord Chaos mentioned near the beginning, "good" and "bad" are totally relative to the individual. The question also makes the rash assumption that "good" and "evil" exist in the first place.

Saying mankind is naturally "good" is sheer nationalism (I couldn't think of a better term. Elitist, maybe? at any rate, it's a lame assumption of superiority based upon how you were born). Saying mankind is "naturally evil" is nothing short of sheer exploitation, and boy has it ever been exploited.

Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly fine for someone to think mankind is a glorious, beautiful thing (or a vile, wicked thing, for that matter). But try to argue your point, and try to "convince" everyone that you're correct? That's just wrong.

That's why I find the question, "are people naturally 'kind' or 'jack-assed' " much more conducive to intelligent conversation. It suffers the same limitations, but to a much, much lesser extent.

...lol, I didn't explain myself too well, but I'm tired over here!

True.
I don't think it's wrong for people to argue that people are good or evil, and try to convience others. It's clear however that this discussion is not based on empiracle data, but one on faith. It's similar to the question of whether life has meaning...

Good and Evil exists as we believe it exists, just because it's a human made concept does not mean that it's not real. Therefore I think we can still argue whether humans are good or bad at heart, but who decides what is good and evil is the question.

I'm a bit late on the swing here. I get the feeling the conversation went on without me... Ah well.

And some big words got thrown around.

Anyways...

Well. there's not much left to say. Thanks for your input people. It was confusing if not enlightening.

More both than one.

And thus concludes my impulsive topic-start.

... unless someone else wants to say something. Then by all means, go ahead.

well. Peace.

I want to add something no one else did. Why do small children feel the need to apologize if they make someone cry? A three or four year old will be sad if they see someone crying, as they will know it is a bad thing. We are born completely selfish with absolutely no empathy. We are not aware of other people. Babies believe the world revolves around them, and everyone else is there just for them. When they get old enough to realize that there are other people like them, and they develop empathy, why do they feel sad when someone else is sad? No one taught them that when someone is crying it is a "bad" thing. They instinctively know it's bad for other people to be sad. Why do they even care? Because people are instinctively empathetic and somewhat kind. The joy of killing or doing other bad things can overpower it, along with lust, greed, and anger. But as a whole, humans are empathetic and kind.

People as a whole think lying is wrong. Why? People in small native tribes in south america find lying and stealing to be wrong. In Asia, theft is wrong. It's wrong in North America too. I don't think it is a coincidence.

Why do we feel guilty after randomly hurting someone, or stealing something. Yeah, some people might think "They deserved it", but in general we all feel guilty after doing something wrong. Guilt itself is proof that we care about each other.

You can base this on Faith, such as in Christianity, or base it on the herding instinct, as in evolution. Either way, there is a foundation for the concept that people care about other people, and are born as empathetic kind creatures, more or less. Other things may overshadow it, like lust, greed, anger, selfishness, but the foundation stays the same.

@Monsta666
Its a good point on universally accepted figures of good and bad, but I don't think those people lack morals, its more that other points (eg greed) overshadow it.

We are all of us born Bastards who must strive with all our might fighting to achieve the ideal of being Good for this universe and namely it's other inhabitance.