Jump to content


Photo

I need arguments against a ban on violent games


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 eragon2890

eragon2890

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 31 October 2010 - 10:28 PM

Hi everyone!

I am a member of a political party here in the Netherlands.

One minister from the last cabinet, Hirsch Ballin of the Christian democrats, wanted to ban "extremely" violent games (defined the same as in germany, so counter-strike and such wouldn't fall under it, it was "a portion of the 18+ material. Probably about 12 games in total.) in general if (and only if) the retailers wouldn't start adhering the age ratings better.

the parliament raised into uproar, and also, there have since been general elections which have killed the christian democrats, they are still in the government but they don't have much to say. In total, 122 out 150 MP mordically oppose the very idea of a ban. Fail.

Since I like to play games, especially of the (extremely) gory category, and since every scientist in my country thinks banning is an extremely stupid idea, yours truly immediately wrote a nota explaining why this is cr*p, and sent it to the parliament. I have also made sure a debate with the minister is being called for so that a motion can be filled ending this debate until 2015 (next elections) and probably forever. bingo.

To make my party's text in this debate even better, I need more arguments. *Not* just why games aren't harmful, I know why they aren't, 5 psychologists have told me so including some of the so-called "opponents" from America like Bushman which are actually not against violent games, just in favour of enforcing age restrictions, -- more abstractly, why it is a bad infringement on our freedom? Isn't 1.5% more crime preferable to making 60% (a big amount anyway) of the people unhappy? Etc. That sort of stuff ;-)

#2 truth2belief

truth2belief

    -dono

  • MATV Crew
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 November 2010 - 09:52 AM

I'm not entirely clear on how gory your (or parliament) "extreme" has to be to be considered ban-able.

There are always people that want to ban games. Some would consider that censorship and think it ridiculous. I personally think there's a more reasonable conclusion. Just like porn, make it 18+, which is already done with PEGI in Europe and ESRB in the USA (which is 17+). I don't know if it's law in Europe that you have to be of age to buy but in the USA, the game retailers ask for ID.

When the idea of extremely violent games comes up, even Halo comes to mind. There was actually a story of a son that killed his parents because they didn't let him play Halo. So I want to know what you mean by extreme. Of course, there are many psychological factors when it comes to why that kid killed his parents. Bad parenting? Of course, no one will admit to that. Addiction to gaming in general? Most likely the reason. Learned from the game? That's one gullible kid.

So speaking in general, the most violent games would be, of course, in the genre of horror. The purpose of these games, of course, is to scare the player. But why is it so scary? Because it's realistic. When a person gets shot, they just don't spout a cup of blood and get back up to fight again. So when you fight monsters, they're scary for the realistic possibility they bring. You should be able to see brains, bones, and blood when someone gets shot. So I guess you'd call that banning realism.

Original Artwork by JinK
Too lazy to go past "D"

#3 monsta

monsta

    -the bee's knees

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2252 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:44 AM

QUOTE (eragon2890 @ Oct 31 2010, 11:28 PM)
*Not* just why games aren't harmful, I know why they aren't, 5 psychologists have told me so including some of the so-called "opponents" from America like Bushman which are actually not against violent games, just in favour of enforcing age restrictions, -- more abstractly, why it is a bad infringement on our freedom? Isn't 1.5% more crime preferable to making 60% (a big amount anyway) of the people unhappy? Etc. That sort of stuff ;-)

Well you have to be careful when applying freedom. If your freedom impinges on the well-being or happiness of another individual then it cannot be allowed. So if the violent games actually do result in people committing crimes against others then the argument that people should be able to exercise that freedom becomes invalid. As it is I am quite sceptical that violent games cause violence. The root cause of violent behaviour - I believe - stems from other factors such as parenting (lack of it), peer pressure and difficult social backgrounds not violent games so I agree with you on that end. But I do not think it is acceptable to allow violent games (or any other activity for that matter) if they cause a small amount of crime just because it makes people happy. By following this line of thought one could condone hate speeches, drugs and other activities.

As for bans on violent games the biggest argument I would make is violent games does not significantly increase violent behaviour/crime. I am sure if we compared individuals who did not play violent games to ones that did there will be no significant difference in the number of violent crimes committed. Special attention should be given to whether the offending people committed identical crimes to one seen in computer games but again I seriously doubt there will be any link here either. Such legislation will cost money and this money would be better spent on other areas namely child protection so children are not exposed to real-life violence. That is a far more pressing concern than computer violence. This last point is particularly true in this period of austerity.

#4 eragon2890

eragon2890

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:07 AM

QUOTE (truth2belief @ Nov 02 2010, 03:52 AM)
I'm not entirely clear on how gory your (or parliament) "extreme" has to be to be considered ban-able.

There are always people that want to ban games.  Some would consider that censorship and think it ridiculous.  I personally think there's a more reasonable conclusion.  Just like porn, make it 18+, which is already done with PEGI in Europe and ESRB in the USA (which is 17+).  I don't know if it's law in Europe that you have to be of age to buy but in the USA, the game retailers ask for ID.

When the idea of extremely violent games comes up, even Halo comes to mind.  There was actually a story of a son that killed his parents because they didn't let him play Halo.  So I want to know what you mean by extreme.  Of course, there are many psychological factors when it comes to why that kid killed his parents.  Bad parenting? Of course, no one will admit to that.  Addiction to gaming in general?  Most likely the reason.  Learned from the game?  That's one gullible kid.

So speaking in general, the most violent games would be, of course, in the genre of horror.  The purpose of these games, of course, is to scare the player.  But why is it so scary?  Because it's realistic.  When a person gets shot, they just don't spout a cup of blood and get back up to fight again.  So when you fight monsters, they're scary for the realistic possibility they bring.  You should be able to see brains, bones, and blood when someone gets shot.  So I guess you'd call that banning realism.

Thanx for the mental support. You are absolutely right. Adults should be able to play whatever they (read: I) want.

In the Netherlands, the age-ratings are enforcable by law, yes. In fact, there are not in America, attempts to do so have been shot down as violating the first amendment 10 times over. Because the court found no proof such games have any harmfull effects. Retailers enforce the ESRB ratings voluntarily. Ironically enough, this works better than here in the Netherlands, where they are inforcable but nobody adheres to them anyway laugh.gif

I like your argument about banning realism, I think we might go and use it. I hadn't though about it like that before, thanx wink.gif

QUOTE (monsta666 @ Nov 02 2010, 05:44 AM)
Well you have to be careful when applying freedom. If your freedom impinges on the well-being or happiness of another individual then it cannot be allowed. So if the violent games actually do result in people committing crimes against others then the argument that people should be able to exercise that freedom becomes invalid. As it is I am quite sceptical that violent games cause violence. The root cause of violent behaviour - I believe - stems from other factors such as parenting (lack of it), peer pressure and difficult social backgrounds not violent games so I agree with you on that end. But I do not think it is acceptable to allow violent games (or any other activity for that matter) if they cause a small amount of crime just because it makes people happy. By following this line of thought one could condone hate speeches, drugs and other activities.

As for bans on violent games the biggest argument I would make is violent games does not significantly increase violent behaviour/crime. I am sure if we compared individuals who did not play violent games to ones that did there will be no significant difference in the number of violent crimes committed. Special attention should be given to whether the offending people committed identical crimes to one seen in computer games but again I seriously doubt there will be any link here either. Such legislation will cost money and this money would be better spent on other areas namely child protection so children are not exposed to real-life violence. That is a far more pressing concern than computer violence. This last point is particularly true in this period of austerity.

Freedom is a good point to make for 2 reasons:

- In general the more control the state excersises, the less crime we have. Basic human rights have been created to protect the individual from too much state interference. This is why hate speeches are in fact allowed, it is what the constitution is for. The assumption is that censorship on Freedom of Expression is inherently damaging to society. This is also a point repeatedly confirmed by the Supreme Court (not only in America).

- This point is very simple: we need votes. Thrust me, this gets us lots of votes.

The arguments you give I have already used in the text. Thanks anyway ;-)

According to the experts I spoke width (all of which oppose a ban, about 1 - 2 % less crime might be achieved by banning these games. this would be small crime, there wouldn't be any reduction in violent crimes at all. In fact, some of them believe you get *less* violent by playing them, and this claim is also backed up by very strong statistical evidence: for the past 15 years, worldwide, the fact holds true that every time the sale of violent games doubles, violent youth crime is cut in half!

The parties who wanted to ban stuff did *not* want to do so becauase of harmfull effects, but because, and I quote "we got sick when seeing this game". They want to ban it on moral grounds, which is just irritating. Offcourse, if they would have major adverse effects, it would be a good idea to ban them, but that is not the argument being made by the proposition.

Finally, I think having, say, 5% more crime in a society where everyone can be his/herself and happy is better than 5% less crime in a society which resembles China or Cuba wink.gif

But anyway, thanx for agreeing with me that I can play whatever I want wink.gif

MODERATOR NOTE: Please use the edit button instead of double-posting. The edit button can be found on the top-right hand-side of your post.

user posted image

Edited by monsta666, 09 November 2010 - 10:34 AM.


#5 iamdeath

iamdeath

    -sama

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1805 posts
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:Going out listening to music Going to club meeting chicks

Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:58 PM

welcome to my world our country ban all 18+ games here like left 4 dead 2 gorey version replace to with wuss version of it self

GTA series here been recut into crapper version.

Australia need to grow up and learn from Usa that game are games not real life
look below see the games that australia ban

http://en.wikipedia....games#Australia
Those who can't see the mirror of the own reflection cannot Reflect the one true self

#6 warita200

warita200

    -RETIRED-

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2932 posts
  • Interests:For those who care and would like to contact me at some point, I can be found on Anime-Suki under the user name: warita (only warita without the 200) :)<br><br>The email that I have on FTV wont work, because I changed accounts a few months ago.

Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:10 PM

And why exactly do you think that violent games are beneficial to your mental health? Why would you even want to support that such games appear on the market?

Whats so great about young people playing war and killing enemies? Explain me that and I will gladly give you tons of arguments against a ban. Because if you are into this type of games, sorry to say it, but it sounds like there is already something wrong with you.

#7 eragon2890

eragon2890

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 18 February 2011 - 06:50 AM

QUOTE (warita200 @ Feb 17 2011, 05:10 PM)
And why exactly do you think that violent games are beneficial to your mental health? Why would you even want to support that such games appear on the market?

Whats so great about young people playing war and killing enemies? Explain me that and I will gladly give you tons of arguments against a ban. Because if you are into this type of games, sorry to say it, but it sounds like there is already something wrong with you.


We already have laws making certain games 18+. So too young children can't play them unless their parents want it.

Besides, I already saw another forum thread about this, I posted this one because that one was dead, but in that thread I saw you said that alltough you didn't support this kind of games, you were against banning them. So, why are you against banning them? This thread was not made because I wanted a general discussion, then I might have revived the other thread ;-) So why are you (according to what you said in that other thread) still against censorship? ;-)

Also, in your profile you say you really like action anime. That's violent too. So, basically, are you saying that something must be wrong with me because I like to play shooters while you say yourself you like to watch violent anime? Could you explain this? ;-)

Anyway, to answer your question, people can see the difference between fiction and real-life. I have spoken to (literally) every media pschycology expert in my country (small country, only about 5 people ><) and they all said there was nothing to worry about as long as you enforce the age ratings (which we allready do). And besides, I suppose you have been to anime conventions right? I don't know if you have been to the game room, but they always play fighting games? (I love those happy.gif) Still, always fun to be there, just like the rest of the con. Also, in general, I assume you know that most hardcore anime fans like yourself are into (violent) games. I am gonna jump to a conclusion here, but I assume you have friends who are, too. Are they not nice people? Do you think something is wrong with them as well?

And I would still like to know how you defend watching violent anime and enjoying it if you think violent games are bad for you? ^_~

Oh and I actually don't really need arguments anymore since a motion has been submitted against the ban, and accepted by a vote of 122 to 28 (only christian partys against motion and thus in favor of a ban.) This was mostly my work biggrin.gif

----------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE (iamdeath @ Feb 17 2011, 04:58 PM)
welcome to my world our country ban all 18+ games here like left 4 dead 2 gorey version replace to with wuss version of it self

GTA series here been recut into crapper version.

Australia need to grow up and learn from Usa that game  are games not real life
look below see the games that australia ban

http://en.wikipedia....games#Australia

Australia? well that might change soon, now that that guy Atkinson is gone biggrin.gif

And offcourse most games are not banned there but made 15+ instead, actually quite bad considering the fact that they are 18+ in the rest of the world for a reason ... >_<

MOD Note: Posts merged. If you're going to do a multi quote there are quote buttions in the poster's comment when you replay to a thread.

Edited by Kid-Wolf, 18 February 2011 - 07:54 AM.


#8 warita200

warita200

    -RETIRED-

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2932 posts
  • Interests:For those who care and would like to contact me at some point, I can be found on Anime-Suki under the user name: warita (only warita without the 200) :)<br><br>The email that I have on FTV wont work, because I changed accounts a few months ago.

Posted 18 February 2011 - 08:17 AM

I dont think that action animes are all that violent.... at least not the ones I watch.

And no, I dont go to anime conventions. I wonder what makes you think I am a hard core fan..... because I dont think I am. I watch my 3-5 shows per season, but I am in no way religious about it.

And you might have misunderstood something. When I said I am against banning, I actually meant, that it is not good to ban already existing games. The change should go into the direction, that such games wont be produced AT ALL.

Sorry, but I cant support any type of entertainment, that simulates war. Plus I fail to see, why some people consider it alright to entertain themselves by slaughtering people/monsters in a virtual world. This definately doesnt sound right!!!

#9 eragon2890

eragon2890

    -chi

  • Kouhais
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 18 February 2011 - 08:38 AM

QUOTE (warita200 @ Feb 18 2011, 02:17 AM)
I dont think that action animes are all that violent.... at least not the ones I watch.

And no, I dont go to anime conventions. I wonder what makes you think I am a hard core fan..... because I dont think I am. I watch my 3-5 shows per season, but I am in no way religious about it.

And you might have misunderstood something. When I said I am against banning, I actually meant, that it is not good to ban already existing games. The change should go into the direction, that such games wont be produced AT ALL.

Sorry, but I cant support any type of entertainment, that simulates war. Plus I fail to see, why some people consider it alright to entertain themselves by slaughtering people/monsters in a virtual world. This definately doesnt sound right!!!


Because it's fun? happy.gif And you know, what gets made is decided by law and demand offcourse (only to a limited degree as allmost all open-source not-for-profit games are shooters too XD). Since nearly everyone, at least below the age of 30 (and boy.... ? Altough I know lots of girls too biggrin.gif), loves these games. Since there are also lots of people who either A) likes to play all sorts of games or cool.gif prefer non-violent ones, those get made as well. So everybody can just choose his/her favorite. And I am not someone who likes getting his freedom destroyed... and luckily for me, I am in a position where I can (and as I wrote, have) make very sure that it won't happen. Also, because there are new elections coming up and *all* the non-christian parties are campaigning for freedom. The christian parties together are now expected to get less than 10% of votes... a historic achievement ;3 (for us.)

And offcourse, in general, in a functional democracy, laws are always kinda "supply-and-demand", either directly (e.g. Swiss) or indirectly (e.g. my country), so a ban is never gonna happen. I am sure that once our generation has grown up, you won't hear all the complaining anymore, and the few people (like you? Lol) who still complain will be declared as crazy as christians complaining about the rolling stones are today biggrin.gif untill then, it's a question of ignoring the minority and campaigning against a ban. (from my party's point of view). This is a good way to get seats in parliament, too, as I wrote XD

And why I tought you were a hardcore fan? biggrin.gif well you wrote in your profile "Offcourse, anime plays a big role in my life" so .... kinda logical for me to assume that, no? Anyway, you should really go to a con once, there are lots of people there who watch about as much as you do, not only hardcore fans (altough I will happily admit I am one myself.... xD), and it's tons of fun and always very cozy! and you can do cosplay, that's fun too! ^^ ( but if you don't want too you can have just as much fun ;3)

and now, I have to go to university for my Japanese language and culture study XD Something else I can recommend: it's tons of fun and many fellow fans! If you can, go study it ;-)

(And yeah I learned to live my own life and not really care about opinions a long time ago, altough I find discussion interesting I will just do what I find fun, so when I get home I'm gonna play ... yup, gears of war 2 LOL awesome!)

Edited by eragon2890, 18 February 2011 - 08:41 AM.


#10 warita200

warita200

    -RETIRED-

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2932 posts
  • Interests:For those who care and would like to contact me at some point, I can be found on Anime-Suki under the user name: warita (only warita without the 200) :)<br><br>The email that I have on FTV wont work, because I changed accounts a few months ago.

Posted 18 February 2011 - 09:18 AM

So this is being reduced to religion? For my taste you use the word chrisitian way too often. Basically what you are saying is: christians= idiots and losers, your religion= winners. I assume you are not christian then. Too bad only the christians in your country have common sense.

Oh, and before you even think about it, I am neither christian nor something else for that matter.

Ah and one more side note. The fact that most of your age group consider violence acceptable already shows, that there is damage. Not sure how your mother raised you, but my mother stressed non violence in my education. And of course there is a difference between REAL violence and fictional one, BUUUUT a person who isnt damaged in his head wont be interested in the fictional violence either, if he has been raised properly. Are you telling me for real, that shooting people for fun (albeit fictional) IS FUN FOR YOU????? And then you claim there is nothing wrong with you or the current trend??? Dont make me laugh!!!

PS: Freedom cannot be limitless, because if it was, this place would be inhabitable. And speaking of freedom being robbed...... there are certain religions (I wont name them here, as this is NOT a discussion about religion) that rob much more freedom then a simple violence ban on computer games. Right? Sort out yourself what I mean by that!

#11 iamdeath

iamdeath

    -sama

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1805 posts
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:Going out listening to music Going to club meeting chicks

Posted 18 February 2011 - 10:19 AM

well the games should be 18+ made for selling for people who are over 18 like they do for buying smokes and alcohol require ID to purchues those so should they do for the 18+ games
Those who can't see the mirror of the own reflection cannot Reflect the one true self

#12 truth2belief

truth2belief

    -dono

  • MATV Crew
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 February 2011 - 04:50 PM

If you step back from and view everythings, it all boils goes down to freedom and liberty. Apparently, it's not enough of an argument until you unfurl the details...

I personally cannot stand games without a story. And that's what I see in all these multiplayer games (although I am looking forward to playing swtor cause it's supposed to be an MMO with story). As soon as I finish the main campaign in FPS shooters, I can't find myself playing the multiplayer at all. But I think everyone can find a little something in common with me in a psychological level. When deep in battle, enemy after enemy fall at your feet. Something completely impossible in the real world, unless you're born in warfare. But in seeing this, you realize that you're above the rest. Adrenaline pushes through your veins and hormones pump out. You are your own hero.

The first person aspect, the screen turning red when hurt, the type of reticule... it all is an attempt to pull the player into the game. Whether a movie director, game designer, or an artist, they want the viewer involved somehow. FPS brings into that the age-old dream, passed down generations to generations, of being THAT hero. RPGs do this also in having customizable characters. This is the evolution of games. Even down to the consoles with the Wii remote and the XBox 360's Kinect. You are your own hero.

The addictiveness of games isn't in that the game is violent but in the surreal of reality. The most popular games adhere to this. Multiplayer options, free roaming worlds, endless pursuits. An endless torrent of addicting goals has become the evolution of gaming. Far worse than the violence is the addictiveness of gaming. It is sad, but I say this because I'm a fan of story. I still have hope for free-roaming games like oblivion which have a plethora of stories. I watch every anime not for ecchi but for story. While I'm sad that the Ishihara ban for anime is out because there are so many animes not to be aired, I'm hoping the main focus of animes will turn to story rather than ecchi, but that's another issue. My research into gaming statistics goes only as far as to my personal papers I wrote, which was a bit of a different subject, but hopefully of some help.

Original Artwork by JinK
Too lazy to go past "D"

#13 Ranch99

Ranch99

    -san

  • Kouhais
  • PipPipPip
  • 213 posts

Posted 19 February 2011 - 03:58 AM

Perhaps the ban on these violent games stem from politician believing that violent games condition people to be more violent than without these violent games.

I'll take an argument from Stephen Fry:

"If people are going to imitate violence then why don't they imitate generosity? ... Nobody says 'thank god for television, making people more generous.'"


Edited by Ranch99, 19 February 2011 - 04:05 AM.


#14 warita200

warita200

    -RETIRED-

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2932 posts
  • Interests:For those who care and would like to contact me at some point, I can be found on Anime-Suki under the user name: warita (only warita without the 200) :)<br><br>The email that I have on FTV wont work, because I changed accounts a few months ago.

Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:39 AM

QUOTE (Ranch99 @ Feb 18 2011, 09:58 PM)
Perhaps the ban on these violent games stem from politician believing that violent games condition people to be more violent than without these violent games.

I'll take an argument from Stephen Fry:

"If people are going to imitate violence then why don't they imitate generosity? ... Nobody says 'thank god for television, making people more generous.'"


Because clearly generosity is a positive character ability that some people dont have at all and others need to learn it through social interaction and it requires to people actually overcome their natural tendency to be selfish. We are not born generous, we have to learn it.

Whereas violence is somewhat a basic trait in all of us. We get born with it. Just think how violent small children are and they need to learn how to control themselves and their aggresive behaviour. But it is so easy to revert to the aggresive side, if it is nurtured and thats EXACTLY what the violence in pc games and TV does. It introduces a world, where violence is shown as acceptable and while it wont make all people become violent of course, there is a large portion of violent happy people, who will be influenced by it.

So to compare aggresivity with generosity is not correct, because thats like comparing apples with pears.


#15 iamdeath

iamdeath

    -sama

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1805 posts
  • Location:sydney
  • Interests:Going out listening to music Going to club meeting chicks

Posted 19 February 2011 - 09:37 AM

Well take a look all best game that going or came out has been banned because government thinks it to violent why don't they just smack our hands and sit in corner if we play this game geez like they Over protective parent not letting see bad games. Trying to smothers us with less violence game more with happy dragon saving princess from monster. blah blah


just release these game just do as they do on Alcohol & smokes or going to a club REQUIRE ID make sure everyone from shops from normal Chain shops like kmart Eb games Games wizards from the manager of the place to the employees that games with 18+ has to be adult buying the game not to be sold to person younger then 18+ but i am hoping they will turn over the idea of selling it here i want 18+ games


we cant have games that they deem violence change it as they see fit and re sell it with all good bit gone.
Those who can't see the mirror of the own reflection cannot Reflect the one true self

#16 truth2belief

truth2belief

    -dono

  • MATV Crew
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 600 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:29 PM

QUOTE (warita200 @ Feb 19 2011, 01:39 AM)
Because clearly generosity is a positive character ability that some people dont have at all and others need to learn it through social interaction and it requires to people actually overcome their natural tendency to be selfish. We are not born generous, we have to learn it.

Whereas violence is somewhat a basic trait in all of us. We get born with it. Just think how violent small children are and they need to learn how to control themselves and their aggresive behaviour. But it is so easy to revert to the aggresive side, if it is nurtured and thats EXACTLY what the violence in pc games and TV does. It introduces a world, where violence is shown as acceptable and while it wont make all people become violent of course, there is a large portion of violent happy people, who will be influenced by it.

So to compare aggresivity with generosity is not correct, because thats like comparing apples with pears.

I'd have to argue that violence is built in and generosity isn't. If generosity has to be built into humans, then all humans since the beginning of time would not have given anything to one another. Violence on the other hand, is not always determined by our natural behavior nor our environment. People have a choice here of what they are to be.

I find Stephen Fry's argument a lot more logical. He says what I take so long to word up in such simple and short ways. I believe you're undermining human cognition, self-control, and awareness. If a child were to pick up a real gun, he/she would not point it at a person and shoot just for the curiosity or fun of it. Save, there are a few cases of children with possessions of weapons, but those cases are accidents where the other gets hurt. Even a child knows. Even the misfits and rebellious, the ruffians and rascals. Look to other countries. Australia for example has children knowing how to use the rifle at 12 years of age. And even more logical would be for those against violent video games to prove their point.

A real-life example would be nice. And tell me, this example is just purely influenced by games and not by society, drunkard parents, cheating husbands/wives, or the other activities of daily life or abnormal life. Statistics and studies haven't proven violence from video games is contagious. It's actually seen as a excellent form to pent out rage. I would prefer and propose this matter be seen as a science. Statistics and study with real mass. And from what I see, the greatest danger of video games is that it's addictive. Anti-violence is excellent and all but in this case to ban video games I believe is not the right direction. If there are people trying to ban games, they have much better directions to point than video games such as the wars and tensions across the world.

The fuel for video game ban is fear rather than because of a preceding circumstances. What if... my child is so weak minded that he/she fight the scourge of zerg, shoot at zombies, or repel an invading hostile force? What if my child found a gun in the streets and started shooting at people? What if my child imitates being the hero and wants to beat up all the bad guys? Yes, the child knows what he/she's being violent against. The most dangerous thing out there would be the kid's peers. Where do you think the slangs and swears come from? And the children get them from the adults and idols.

Original Artwork by JinK
Too lazy to go past "D"

#17 warita200

warita200

    -RETIRED-

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2932 posts
  • Interests:For those who care and would like to contact me at some point, I can be found on Anime-Suki under the user name: warita (only warita without the 200) :)<br><br>The email that I have on FTV wont work, because I changed accounts a few months ago.

Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:56 PM

Generosity as many other admirable character traits are not built in. It is the result of the sosialization process. If everybody would behave selfishly, living in a group wouldnt be possible. Therefore the need to supress undesired behaviour comes in. Human had to learn that selfish behaviour is doing the group harm and that sometimes the well being of the group comes before your own. It isnt something that you are born with, it is something you have to learn.

If you look at small children, that means bellow the age of 3, you can observe a VERY selfish type of behaviour. Children this small dont share things, they get aggressive, if you try to make them share too. In fact until they are ready to learn to control their urges and instincts, you should let the child be and start the social education at the age of 2,5-3 years old. By then the kid will reach the necessary mental development stage at which it is capable comprehending it MUST share. This is how it works in a community. And they have to learn it. If a child isnt taught this, it wont come on its own, as simple as that. That doesnt mean, that human dont posses social skills or the ability to learn it. They do, some more and some less and hence the broad spectrum ranging from self sacrifying samaritans to egocentrical and selfish bastards.

Yet aggresivity is build in. We are born with it. It is a self preservance mechanism. Back in the prehistorical times, we needed to be aggressive in order to survive. Even small children had to, maybe even more so than adults because they were competing with their peers for limited resources and parental attention.

However in the modern era, we dont need to be aggressive. In fact we should actively try to supress this basic instinct.

#18 monsta

monsta

    -the bee's knees

  • Retired
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2252 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 24 February 2011 - 12:19 AM

QUOTE (eragon2890 @ Feb 18 2011, 08:38 AM)
And offcourse, in general, in a functional democracy, laws are always kinda "supply-and-demand", either directly (e.g. Swiss) or indirectly (e.g. my country), so a ban is never gonna happen. I am sure that once our generation has grown up, you won't hear all the complaining anymore, and the few people (like you? Lol) who still complain will be declared as crazy as christians complaining about the rolling stones are today biggrin.gif


And why I tought you were a hardcore fan? biggrin.gif well you wrote in your profile "Offcourse, anime plays a big role in my life" so .... kinda logical for me to assume that, no? Anyway, you should really go to a con once, there are lots of people there who watch about as much as you do, not only hardcore fans (altough I will happily admit I am one myself.... xD), and it's tons of fun and always very cozy! and you can do cosplay, that's fun too! ^^ ( but if you don't want too you can have just as much fun ;3)

and now, I have to go to university for my Japanese language and culture study XD Something else  I can recommend: it's tons of fun and many fellow fans! If you can, go study it ;-)

(And yeah I learned to live my own life and not really care about opinions a long time ago, altough I find discussion interesting I will just do what I find fun, so when I get home I'm gonna play ...  yup, gears of war 2 LOL awesome!)

I don't know about this statement particularly the one regarding Christians. I think people will always complain of violence regardless of what generation or religious affiliation they may have. Violence has been with society since the beginning of time and it will not stop in the foreseeable future. If there is violence there will be people to complain about it and they need not be religious. What is more there is a general perception (right or wrong) that violence is on the increase. So with these fears of increased violence people will always want to blame some factor. Now some factors may have genuine links to violence (such as poverty and education) but people, and this particularly true in this day and age, do not like to be held accountable for their failures so they will make scapegoats. It is human nature and people will do this whether they are religious or not as no one likes to admit to their flaws and shortcomings.

Now not everyone who says media violence causes violent behaviour use the media as a scapegoat (although some people do). There are people who genuinely believe there is a link between media violence and actual aggressive behaviour. Personally I don't think this is the case because as far as I am aware there are no reliable studies that prove this correlation definitively. There could be a weak correlation between high exposure to media violence at a young age to future aggression but I think this effect results more from social background and parenting experiences. For example children who watch excessive violence/sex maybe more likely to have abusive/absent parents which I believe have a far greater impact on whether the child develops aggressive personalty traits.

Taking this from the other side, there are many children that are exposed to high levels of violence through the media and real life (via school/army and sports such as rugby, American football) that don't develop aggressive behaviour. It is because in these cases they receive adequate teaching that such behaviour is wrong and this is ultimately the biggest determinant on whether children/adults become violent. Off course certain people are inherently more violent than others so they need stronger social conditioning to not become aggressive but then this isn't related to media violence but social conditioning. In other words these people would have become violent regardless of whether they saw violence on TV or not because they did not receive enough teaching that such behaviour is wrong. Ultimately people have to unlearn these instinctive aggressive traits.

Edited by monsta666, 24 February 2011 - 01:31 AM.


#19 Mowerman

Mowerman

    -dono

  • Sempais
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 754 posts

Posted 11 January 2012 - 03:49 PM

Heh, this is too funny. Netherlands, a country where you can go and do drugs freely. A country where the state has set up businesses specifically for doing drugs legally. If you drop this to a fundamental level, video games are a form of chemical dependency. The person is hooked on endorphins. The excitement causes a chemical release into the body that creates a high for the person, making them crave them more but also desensitizing them to the acts being done. Anything and everything can be described this way. Another way of thinking on this from a chemical frame of reference, is that video games, just like everything else man does, can be addictive. Anything that can be done by a person can be that way, if the person has an obsessive/compulsive nature. Eatting disorders, sports nuts, etc etc etc. They are doing something every other person in the world is doing, but they are doing it extremely, usually for the natural high that is achieved from the chemicals their body releases while doing those activities.


The nice nice buddy buddy way that the world acts now will not remain the status quo. Nature is violent. Watch the educational channels some time. Bug Wars, When Nature goes Wild, I shouldn't have Survived. All stories on the violence of nature. When the next major war comes, one that involves the world and blood is being spilled on every street corner in every major country, people are going to think a whole lot differently on gory video games. The kids growing up today will not be shocked into inaction when they are faced with the horrors that happen in war. They will continue to think and move and ultimately survive.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users