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#41 franzoir

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:22 AM

QUOTE
I think that the writer keeps pounding that home so maybe we as the viewers can fully notice his character growth as the series progresses. Anyways if I can insert just one semi-perverted (probably unnecessary) line into a rather straight-forward post before I stop. If I were Haru I wouldn't have hesitated to direct-link right inside Chiyuri boyfriend or not  ah so shameful... *washes hands


I really hate that though. May be it is because I have started writing but there are many ways to do character progressions than the zero to hero trip. When anime was about interesting sci-fi stories/settings, such obvious character cliches were easy to overlook. But now that the industry has shifted to slice of life, character progression has to become much more nuance than using cliched paths. Luckily for accel world it falls into the former category.

Generally, I still think Kei Kurono is an example of good character progression because it is genuinely hard to turn a complete asshole into a likeable/ believable hero. Even the dynamic between Naruto/Sasuke which Kishi borrowed from Akira was interesting. Unfortunately, Kishi couldnt recreate the same urgency between Naruto/Sasuke as oppose to Kanaeda/Tetsuo.

As for the psuedo-sex, I liken it to the sex scene in Demolition Man.
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#42 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

Wow ep 4 was a blast. Truly great.

Yes Kuroyukihimes sudden burst of feelings and everything are a bit dubious. It somehow came too fast and too much at the right time. Still it was very good scene between those two. And you have to hand it to her, her will to reach her goal is not only talk if shes even ready to go that far for her goal even injuring herself like that.

Despite him beeing unconfident and hating himself its good to see that Haru is quite intelligent. I dont think many wouldve realized what Taku had planned with the attack, especially not after this big shock. Taku hasa lot to explain now, both about his goals and how he just can use Chiyu.
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#43 senpai-kun

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:08 PM

QUOTE (ImTakes @ Apr 29 2012, 11:40 PM)
I took from your cell phone...you really are a pervert. laugh.gif
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Nice, who among us hasn't been caught in the same predicament (and some w/our pants down for that matter)... let that person cast the first stone wink.gif xD.

QUOTE (franzoir @ Apr 30 2012, 04:22 AM)

I really hate that though. May be it is because I have started writing but there are many ways to do character progressions than the zero to hero trip. When anime was about interesting sci-fi stories/settings, such obvious character cliches were easy to overlook. But now that  the industry has shifted to slice of life, character progression has to become much more nuance than using cliched paths.

As for the psuedo-sex, I liken it to the sex scene in Demolition Man.

I'm writing again as well though and hopefully this time until absolute completion. So I get what you're saying about character progression. My protagonist's progression doesn't go the route of the zero to hero character. I too want to delve into something more complex when telling their stories but with that said that cliche (zero to hero) is tried and true. It's especially easy for a younger audience to grasp the concept. As long as the story is interesting that way can still be successful. It also depends who your target audience is. For instance you bring up Kei Kurono from Gantz. His character does fit really well with the concept of the a-hole teen who becomes the likeable hero with time. I would say that Gantz and Kei's character fits into a specific target audience who are more likely to appreciate his character progression path (being a more hardcore type story). Accel World is also different or unique concept wise but you can also tell by Haru's character they still want to appeal to a more mainstream younger audience as well.

I applaud the psuedo-sex because the more mature audience will recognize (find amusing) it and you can still pass it off as "safe" for younger viewers who might not even give it a second thought. If you are let's say writing with the intention for mainstream and don't want to have obvious sex scenes it's a clever route to go in.

#44 franzoir

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:01 PM

QUOTE (senpai-kun @ Apr 30 2012, 11:08 AM)
I'm writing again as well though and hopefully this time until absolute completion. So I get what you're saying about character progression. My protagonist's progression doesn't go the route of the zero to hero character. I too want to delve into something more complex when telling their stories but with that said that cliche (zero to hero) is tried and true. It's especially easy for a younger audience to grasp the concept. As long as the story is interesting that way can still be successful. It also depends who your target audience is.


I agree with your general sentiments about target audience/ accessibility. But when I was growing up in the 90s what I loved about anime was I knew if I watched it, it wouldnt patronize me because I'm a kid. I generally think kids have the unique ability of being sponges. Granted you have to be careful what you share with them (I was like 11 when I watched Berserk and I couldnt sleep straight for the whole weekend), but you only have to look at the Legend of Korra to see a perfect marriage of an interesting fantasy but also grounded characters with complex progression arcs. Or even DCU does some pretty dark things. Batman Beyond:Return of the Joker is probably one of the darkest animated movies I have ever seen.

That being said I am absolutely crap at writing multidimensional characters because of my misanthropy. I go the Oda sensei route of making pretty one dimensional characters but placing them in absurd sci-fi settings/situations to hopefully invest people.

So I appreciate the difficulty in writing characters but I still dont like what I perceive to be as lazy I.e lets just rollout the zero to hero troupe because it is easy. Especially now that the industry seems to be broke for ideas and settings, nuances in characters become even more important. Luckily for Accel World it succeeds in having an interesting sci-fi setting/landscape and that for me anyway is what is driving the story. Because I sure cant believe that Kuro and Haru share true love, especially when Haru is also cavorting about with his bf's gf in her bed. If it is true love I will eat some polystyrene.
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#45 Norren

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:20 AM

I'm really surprised how many writers there are here, although I guess I shouldn't be.

I don't think the Zero to Hero trope applies here.

I think the series' perspective has put blinders on us in that regard. This series is written in First Person Narrative from Haru's PoV. I think we would have an entirely different sense of the story if we were seeing it from every PoV involved.

Haru sees himself as a Zero, so we see this as Zero to Hero.

Kuroyukihime sees Haru and goes "MY GOD HE'S FAST! <3"

I wish this series would try to give us some different perspectives. Getting to see things from Kuroyukihime's point of view instead of her telling us (Haru) her point of view would probably make this flow so much better.

#46 senpai-kun

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:52 AM

QUOTE (Norren @ May 01 2012, 12:20 AM)
I don't think the Zero to Hero trope applies here.

I think the series' perspective has put blinders on us in that regard.  This series is written in First Person Narrative from Haru's PoV.  I think we would have an entirely different sense of the story if we were seeing it from every PoV involved.

Haru sees himself as a Zero, so we see this as Zero to Hero.

Kuroyukihime sees Haru and goes "MY GOD HE'S FAST! <3"

But you see Norren that's exactly why franzoir or others would say this is the Zero to Hero progression at work here. We are only truly getting his PoV. It is so blatant if you really look at it. When you finally get some insight from the other characters like Kuro and Chiyuri, even though it's a positive message, it still feels completely overshadowed by all of Haru's negativity. Why is he going as far as calling himself just a pawn or a slave when Kuro is trying to explain to him his self-worth (why she has supposedly fallen for him) through her eyes. It makes you wonder is it really necessary unless there's a writer's objective that's trying to be accomplished.

I imagine by the end of this the final message will be something like it doesn't matter what you look like but it's what's on the inside that counts. A zero can become a hero. Once again personally I have no real issues with this type of character development storyline. But I can admit it's not my personal preference to have those kind of lead protagonists when I'm attempting to write a story.

#47 Norren

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:47 PM

I wonder if his sprouting wings was was him discovering what he already had, or evolving the power in the first place. The pain he experienced implied the latter, but his naming implies the former... mhh... So much symbolism, virtually no info dump. The irony astounds. Next episode maybe? Can't wait to see how terribly this whole incident goes over with Chi-chan.

Kuroyuki's duel avatar was amazing. Twin swords, gentle levitation, sleek form... horrible is so far off base to describe it it's comical. I wish they hadn't kept us in the dark on her name. dry.gif I wonder if we'll get to see her use a certain idiot swordsman's «Dual Blades» techniques.

That said, we've had our Zero to Hero moment, and now for the war plot beyond. Hopefully we'll start to see more than just first person perspective from here on out. (Because there is totally more self loathing coming.)

#48 nijlandp

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:20 AM

So Haru has a special ability. It was to be expected that he would have something special. What was interesting about this episode was what Kuroyuki said about suspecting him having something like that. That seems to support the idea that she ain't completely honest. Her actions and timing feel like she is following a plan.
For the rest i am intested in how Chiyuri will react. The episode seems to suggest that she may like Haru more than she shows.

#49 franzoir

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (nijlandp @ May 05 2012, 02:20 AM)
What was interesting about this episode was what Kuroyuki said about suspecting him having something like that. That seems to support the idea that she ain't completely honest.

Exactly. When you entrust a power such as acceleration to kids no less, just expect everyone to have ulterior/depraved motives. Some are just more smarter than others in how they go about it.

Taku was pathetic but not of his own making. So Haru should realise that Alpha males are just as trapped as Beta males, the absurdity lies in the fact that they dont know it or maybe they do but dont see a way out.

Regardless, for the first semi-serious fight it was okay. Ticked off friend/rival complex thingy. Now just to slog through Chiyu joining and then there shall be no more tolerance on my part. After the Chiyi crap is sorted through I expect balls to be flung to the wall.

The Black Lotus reveal was good. On one level I admire her determination to win. On another, if I was a king I would definitely want to destroy her because of what she represents. Acceleration is an ability I would want to keep for life hence Black snow must go.


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#50 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:58 PM

The stuff about Haru and Taku was more or less how I expected it to play out since it was nothing new they presented us here.

After this ep it is now impossible for Kuroyukihime not to use Haru for her own means. Her timed wake-up, her entrance, everything is just too scripted for it to be coincidental. It wouldnt even surprise me if the voice Haru heard and which gave him strength was a backdoor or hack by her to control Haru.

Just like Haru I too thought her real avatar was beautiful. It totally suits the Black King since it looks like destruction and a lot of pain. But since shes a woman its not a surprise she doesnt like it.

What I didnt understand is what Taku said to the spectators after he thought he had already won. He said he betrayed his Legion and overused his points, but if he overused his points in my eyes that means used them all then shouldnt he not be able to Accelerate? And does he mean that by betraying his Legion or is there something more?

I wouldnt be surprised if someone (maybe even Kuroyukihimes parents) set all this Burst and Acceleration all up just for their kid to have fun or something.
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#51 Norren

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ May 05 2012, 08:58 AM)
Just like Haru I too thought her real avatar was beautiful. It totally suits the Black King since it looks like destruction and a lot of pain. But since shes a woman its not a surprise she doesnt like it.

...

I wouldnt be surprised if someone (maybe even Kuroyukihimes parents) set all this Burst and Acceleration all up just for their kid to have fun or something.

It's not just that she's a woman, Black Lotus represents everything that she hates about herself. Think about what Haru said about Silver Crow's appearance when he first saw it. He thought it was fragile, frail, and useless - those inner doubts in his heart materialized. What could her inner doubts and such be? I'm suspecting envy of her family, and self loathing for not having anything special of her own.

I agree with you in that I think Kuroyukihime's father created this whole thing. If her father is who I think he is, he and a game company discovered acceleration in 2026, and he's heavily implied to be one of the inventors of the neural linker in the first place. (Accel world is 2045 if I'm remembering correctly)

I wouldn't even be surprised if he's trapped in a VR world of some sort and this was his way of reaching out to the world, and Kuroyuki is just trying to see him again. Her parents are mysteriously missing, and the nurse said "Someone from her family will be here tomorrow".

As to Taku "Betraying his legion", Just because he's not out of points doesn't mean he hasn't "overused". They could have a safety net rule that you don't spend below a certain point margin to ensure that you can't lose your points, and he went below the line. Or he could have simply not shown up for a legion battle. We're about to learn about those, methinks, next episode is Blue Legion retribution against Taku.

Sadly, this story's director has no sense of pacing what so ever. We watched Haru go from despair to "oh yeah..." without so much as even stopping to breath this episode... and kuroyuki go from admiration of Haru to "I am woman, hear me scheme" without even stopping to breath, they even sounded like they were playing the sound clips over each other. >_>;

#52 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:22 PM

Well truth be told Haru has been kind of a wuss to begin with up to the point of the accident with Snow Black. I mean he did see Taku as a good friend and that he did mean well, but was clouded by hatred as to him nurolinking with thier close firend Chiu.

If you ask me the pacing was good for this episode since it kind of carried what he went though so far, and it kind of showed the relationship of Taku and Haru now.

Also, seeing that Black Lotus is now back on the scene only means one thing. She's tired of hiding and belives that Haru would create the path to meet the creator in the end of it all. That and her Duel Avy does look kind of badass as well. tongue.gif

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#53 Norren

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:36 PM

Mhh... lots to say about this episode, but I'll skip most of it for a WTF that's been bugging me for 3 episodes that has almost nothing to do with the actual story:

Why do the subtitles for this show keep deliberately omitting the way people refer to each other in favor of an agreed common term?

(Statements are paraphrased because I'm in a rush, sorry.)

Haru: "I know senpai needs me..."

Subtitle: "I know kuroyukihime needs me..."

Classmate: "See you later, hime~"

Subtitle: "See you later, kuroyukihime."

This series has enough problems as it is, bad editing isn't doing it any favors. :^/

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:15 PM

I just watched both episodes 4 and 5 and I was actually surprised how the story has progressed quite quickly with the girl already admitting that she is in love with Haru.....really really quick imo.

I'm enjoying thus far, I somewhat expected Taku's response to be like that, I do feel for the guy, since he's girlfriend is kinda retarded. wink.gif

Ah well, I mean I like the series but at the same time it just feels off and moves very quickly. It's interesting series and I hope it doesn't get derailed and turn into a joke.

#55 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (Norren @ May 11 2012, 09:36 PM)
This series has enough problems as it is

I would be nice it you told us what they are since I dont really see problems.
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#56 Norren

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 01:04 AM

Just this episode alone, Taku's arbitrary point tally. Last episode's finale, he was convinced one defeat would eliminate his remaining points and ability to burst, so afraid he was willing to grovel.

This episode, when Haru pulls a bonehead, Taku is willing to give "half" his points, as if he has enough to cleanly divide, even though he should've only earned 1/4th as many as Haru. (Lv 4 vs level 1). ... And then there's the whole "burst link" spam where Taku spent as many points as Haru had left, just to prove he could dodge Chiyu's books.

Is the guy really in danger of losing his points? Or is he just math stupid when his friends are on the line? It'd be kind of nice to get a feel for which it is. I'm assuming he's just math stupid when his friends get involved.

Most of the characters are ambiguous like that. Kuroyukihime is sending ALL the schoolgirl in love signals, but randomly flips into code geass mode.

Edited by Norren, 12 May 2012 - 01:13 AM.


#57 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 04:11 AM

Well I have to say to think he would of pulled a dumb move by leveling up right off the bat like that. I mean didn't he know that it's a dangerous thing to level right away from the get go? rolleyes.gif

In any case now that he's level 2 now I wonder what perk he managed to obtain, but it looks like we won't know about that until later on.

In any case I have to say that ponytails on girls are usually smexy if they can pull it off and it sems that hime can in this case. tongue.gif

Anyways is seems that Taku is trying his best to repay his debt for messing with Chi-chan and Haru, but from what things look like there's more to it then just that. Also, it seems that Hime is showing how paranoid she is with Taku in the end of this episode here.

QUOTE (Norren @ May 11 2012, 08:04 PM)
Kuroyukihime is sending ALL the schoolgirl in love signals, but randomly flips into code geass mode.


Mind explaining the Code Geass bit there my friend since that is kind o bugging me on not knowing what you fully meant there. unsure.gif

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#58 Norren

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 05:49 AM

QUOTE (Kid-Wolf @ May 11 2012, 09:11 PM)
Mind explaining the Code Geass bit there my friend since that is kind o bugging me on not knowing what you fully meant there. unsure.gif

I probably should have said Lelouch rather than Code Geass, but I was referring rather sardonically to the way Hime flips between her ambition to smash the other six kings and her affection for Haru... it reminds me of watching Lulu flip back and forth between smiling at Nunnally and casually ordering Brittanian deaths.

I like to think she's being genuine, but... she flows between her lines so quickly and often without pause that it hurts the effect. Even at his most doting moment, Lulu had expressions, inner reflection moments, etc., that would always mark the transition between loving brother and cold tactician... and Hime has a poker face that she wears unless she's actually fishing for Haru to flirt with her, with no visible transition.

Although I will admit the twin braids were adorable as hell. She can totally do Ogre Battle Cosplay. <3

#59 nijlandp

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:00 PM

I wonder how this will go: Haru has a nice meeting with that new girl. Is she going to be the new help for the black army?
Hime seems to know something and she ain't happy. Taku probably has to help her now or something. Maybe she knows who the blue knight is?
I wouldn't be surprised if Chiyu will join eventually.

#60 JCDRANZER

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 11:20 AM

QUOTE (Norren @ May 12 2012, 05:49 AM)
I probably should have said Lelouch rather than Code Geass, but I was referring rather sardonically to the way Hime flips between her ambition to smash the other six kings and her affection for Haru...  it reminds me of watching Lulu flip back and forth between smiling at Nunnally and casually ordering Brittanian deaths.

I like to think she's being genuine, but... she flows between her lines so quickly and often without pause that it hurts the effect.  Even at his most doting moment, Lulu had expressions, inner reflection moments, etc., that would always mark the transition between loving brother and cold tactician... and Hime has a poker face that she wears unless she's actually fishing for Haru to flirt with her, with no visible transition.

Although I will admit the twin braids were adorable as hell.  She can totally do Ogre Battle Cosplay. <3

Yes, the transition from one mindset to the other just happens too quickly, you suspect that its fabricated to get Haru to get along with her. To be honest, I wouldn't be too surprised because her falling in love with Haru, happened suddenly, it's more reasonable to think that she's using him. However, I do not think that is the case in this anime.

I thought this was an anime-original production with a game being released soon, I had no idea that the anime and game are based on a light novel series. rolleyes.gif

I just watched episode 06, it was good and made me like the series more, can't believe we are already a quarter of a way in the story but I suspect this will get a 2nd season.

The introduction of Aqua Current was great, just about the right time for Haru to start being indecisive, however, I don't think he will be like Makoto of School Days. However, the cabling of the 2 will definitely stir up the feelings of Kuroyukihime quite a bit I guess....if she ever finds out that is. laugh.gif

The ending of ep 6 with Kuroyukihime pretty much saying "Let's Fight" to Taku, kinda surprised me but I think it's because Kuroyukihime wanted to respect Taku by giving him a proper match with her using her real avatar. I guess Taku quit Kendo because he thought it was meaningless since he pretty much used Burst Link to win his matches in the Kendo tournaments............actually I'm not totally sure why he quit, was it to make him less of a target to other Burst Linkers? rolleyes.gif

Edited by JCDRANZER, 13 May 2012 - 11:23 AM.





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