.mkv/.avi? whats the diff?


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xxanime_junkyxx

-sama
Retired
well i was downloading murder princess and i saw that there were two different file types, one ended with .mkv while the other ended with .avi....what's the diff b/w the two? i always thought that .avi could be played only on WMP and .mkv could not. i guess not b/c the .avi that i downloaded only played on real player. what's the diff b/w the two, as i am blindly downloading files in the hopes that it will play on WMP? and how can i tell if the file can be played only on WMP/real player.

please use leyman's terms w/ me as i am not a computer whiz at all. thanks for the help! =)
 
QUOTE (xxanime_junkyxx @ May 16 2007, 09:49 PM) well i was downloading murder princess and i saw that there were two different file types, one ended with .mkv while the other ended with .avi....what's the diff b/w the two? i always thought that .avi could be played only on WMP and .mkv could not. i guess not b/c the .avi that i downloaded only played on real player. what's the diff b/w the two, as i am blindly downloading files in the hopes that it will play on WMP? and how can i tell if the file can be played only on WMP/real player.

please use leyman's terms w/ me as i am not a computer whiz at all. thanks for the help! =)
I don't know as much as other people do, but what I do know is just that they are two different types of containers for video files. And both are often offered because mkv files can hold audio in h264 which is better quality than mpeg 3, but avi can't. As for what they can be played in, I play both my avi files and mkv files in WMP so these two types can play in various video players. If my info is wrong please correct me cause I'm not even 100% sure about this.
 
By terms, here's what they mean, and their differences.

.avi files, in terms of subbed anime, are called Audio Video Interleave, ones with encoded subs in this case. Other than that, in technical terms, it is a multimedia container that could contain any type of encoding at all (usually h264, xvid, etc.), and usually is a popular choice because they do not have much interference with codecs that are used to play with it.

.mkv files are known as matrovska Video Files. These are somewhat like .avi files, with some exceptions. .mkv files tend to be in a pretty good quality, and is also smaller in filesize. It also uses a different binary meta-language, meaning, apart from avi, it's very open-accessible and adaptable. Also, note that .mkv files are completely container files, meaning they may hold a video file, audio file, and possibly subtitles separately, which is advantageous in terms of open-access.

Now, in terms of fansubbed-anime, the advantages to two sides are the same, but may be different in quality, subbing, type of subs, expertise, and/or speed. AVI tend to be more stable and its subs tend to be in synchronization most of the time. MKV tends to be higher in quality and more editable if there were a draw-back in the group's process.

For more information regarding the two formats, visit wikipedia.org and search the two.
 
How should I go about this...

First the incorrect stuff should be fixed.

QUOTE because mkv files can hold audio in h264 which is better quality than mpeg 3, but avi can't.
There's no audio called h264. You mean h264 video, and many a time an avi release will have that as well. The fact that avi does not support containing h264 doesn't stop many fansub encoders.


QUOTE .avi files, in terms of subbed anime, are called Audio Video Interleave, ones with encoded subs in this case. Other than that, in technical terms, it is a multimedia container that could contain any type of encoding at all (usually h264, xvid, etc.), and usually is a popular choice because they do not have much interference with codecs that are used to play with it.

Subtitles do not have to be hardsubbed onto the video for avi. They actually can be softsubbed but that isn't really supported by any splitter outside of Haali's.

And one small amendment to what you said about the containing abilities. Yes avi can pretty much contain anything but most of what's added into it is through hacks. Almost every fansub avi release is not actually correct to it's standard. Most being of the XviD type which is not supported in avi without the Packed Bitstream hack.


QUOTE .mkv files are known as matrovska Video Files. These are somewhat like .avi files, with some exceptions. .mkv files tend to be in a pretty good quality, and is also smaller in filesize. It also uses a different binary meta-language, meaning, apart from avi, it's very open-accessible and adaptable. Also, note that .mkv files are completely container files, meaning they may hold a video file, audio file, and possibly subtitles separately, which is advantageous in terms of open-access.

1. There's no quality difference between container formats. Everything looks the same no matter what container you put it in. Whether it will work properly depends on whether the container actually supports it.
2. Subtitles can be muxed in as part of the Matroska file. They do not have to be separate.
3. Matroska = mkv, mka, mks


QUOTE Now, in terms of fansubbed-anime, the advantages to two sides are the same, but may be different in quality, subbing, type of subs, expertise, and/or speed. AVI tend to be more stable and its subs tend to be in synchronization most of the time. MKV tends to be higher in quality and more editable if there were a draw-back in the group's process.
1. Matroska has much better Error Correction over avi.
2. Subtitle synchronization depends on the subtitle renderer and not the container. Only time it will be off because of the container is if someone set a borked delay on the subtitles or the audio stream or you have a vfr stream that the encoder forgot to mux timecodes to.

Final info (I don't feel like rewriting stuff that's already well documented):
http://www.cccp-project.net/wiki/index.php?title=MKV
 
okay cool, that makes more sense to me now, but last question, some files play only on realplayer, while others only play on WMP, how can you tell which file will play where?
 
Thanks for correcting me Haruka. I must admit I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to that type of thing. I know the basics I need to know and not much else.

As for videos that can only play in realplayer and such, the only file types I know of that can only play in realplayer are rmvb files and I don't know of any files that can only play in WMP.
 
Whether a file will play in a media player doesn't depend so much on the player as on what codecs you have. You can play a file in WMP if you have the codec for it, say mkv. There are codec packs out there like CCCP which cater for the various output formats that fansub groups use.

I for one have installed CCCP, use PowerDVD to watch my stuff, and use Media Player Classic (bundled with CCCP) to play whatever isn't supported by PowerDVD. I think there is even a codec called Real Alternative that allows you to play Real media files (.rm, .rmvb etc.) in other players such as WMP and MPC. I have used it before in my old computer and it seems to work fine.
 
RealPlayer actually doesn't recognize mkv/ogm.

http://www.cccp-project.net/wiki/index.php...table_Player.29

Though I wonder why we have that listed as an acceptable player when it fails on two of the formats we support and is unknown whether it supports mp4 or ts (doubt ts).

/me may edit the wiki for that later...

EDIT: Some players do matter since some refuse to use directshow (they use their own internal filters, e.g. MPlayer, VLC Player) or don't even follow directshow standards correctly. (e.g. not enforcing filter priority)
 
what types of files can WMP play? .mkv and .avi right? .mp4?
 
Windows Media Player can pretty much play anything there is, as long as you have the codecs for it
dry.gif
 
Major important differences between avi and mkv:
  • a hack in mkv which allows variable frame rates, good, right? normally yes but mkv's get this by having a separate stream to store video timing information which comes out bad as now not all video information is in the video stream
  • mkv's aren't as mature as avi's, you have troubled seeking (moving forward or backward by clicking on the progress indicator)
there are also some problems with CCCP the official solution to mkv's on windows
  • It relies on external library's to play some stuff where as VLC (another player, I suggest you get it from video-lan.org) will play everything CCCP can play with these library's plus more stuff straight after you download
  • It has some interfaces problems, in full screen mode if you right click to bring up the right click menu, if you decide this was a mistake, the only way to get rid of it is by clicking on the play surface, which is also a pause comand
 
QUOTE (scc @ May 17 2007, 04:43 PM)Major important differences between avi and mkv:
  • a hack in mkv which allows variable frame rates, good, right? normally yes but mkv's get this by having a separate stream to store video timing information which comes out bad as now not all video information is in the video stream

  • mkv's aren't as mature as avi's, you have troubled seeking (moving forward or backward by clicking on the progress indicator)
  • It's not a hack and it's completely at spec within the matroska file standard. The timecodes are contained within the clusters of the cue and that's not something that would be referred to as a "stream" within an mkv. Also what's the point of wanting it in the video stream? How many video streams have parsers to be used for playback without a container being used?
  • Your player/splitter is borked. I have no trouble seeking in any matroska files and I have tested many kinds of samples including extremely advanced ones filled with Ordered Chapters/Multiple Editions/TRACKSETEX's/VFR/etc...


QUOTE (scc @ May 17 2007, 04:43 PM)

there are also some problems with CCCP the official solution to mkv's on windows
  • It relies on external library's to play some stuff where as VLC (another player, I suggest you get it from video-lan.org) will play everything CCCP can play with these library's plus more stuff straight after you download

  • It has some interfaces problems, in full screen mode if you right click to bring up the right click menu, if you decide this was a mistake, the only way to get rid of it is by clicking on the play surface, which is also a pause comand

  • Guess what, VLC depends on libraries as well! Also VLC doesn't support switching between multiple Editions in matroska (which is in matroska's specifications) and can't even properly display ASS/SSA subtitles which are supported by matroska.
  • Their's no solution for that with Zoomplayer. But you can just right click at the bottom of the screen for MPC and you'll just get the seek bar to appear then just move away from it and it will disappear. The video won't pause then. If you want that changed for Zoomplayer, bother Inmatrix the developer of it not us. If you want a better solution for MPC, bother gabest the developer of it (if you can find him) not us.
EDIT: Sorry about the weird spacing.

CODE Seem to cause some weird spacing issues or I'm just retarded today... >_>

Seems to relate with editing a post with list in it...

EDIT2: WMP is actually rather usable. It should use directshow at all times.
 
QUOTE (Harukalover @ May 17 2007, 06:20 PM)
It's not a hack and it's completely at spec within the matroska file standard.

That's how it was described to me



QUOTE (Harukalover @ May 17 2007, 06:20 PM)
Also what's the point of wanting it in the video stream? How many video streams have parsers to be used for playback without a container being used?

If you want to change to another format, and the converter doesn't take this into account you end up with timing discrepancies. This could also be the cause seeking problems, you have to look in two places for data


QUOTE (Harukalover @ May 17 2007, 06:20 PM)
Your player/splitter is borked. I have no trouble seeking in any matroska files and I have tested many kinds of samples including extremely advanced ones filled with Ordered Chapters/Multiple Editions/TRACKSETEX's/VFR/etc...

I'm using CCCP, that would seem to suggest it should work


QUOTE (Harukalover @ May 17 2007, 06:20 PM)
Guess what, VLC depends on libraries as well!

Yes, but those library's are installed with VLC, they may even be part of the exe, with CCCP they are seperate and either I've got a bad install or something because it say's it mightn't be able the play MP3's


QUOTE (Harukalover @ May 17 2007, 06:20 PM)
Their's no solution for that with Zoomplayer.

Yes there is, disable left clicking as play/pause command and this is also most major interface problem
 
Save the argument for later, you two. Right now I think our friend wants a question answered in a formal way.
 
QUOTE (scc @ May 17 2007, 08:07 PM)That's how it was described to me
http://www.matroska.org/technical/diagram/index.html


QUOTE (scc @ May 17 2007, 08:07 PM)If you want to change to another format, and the converter doesn't take this into account you end up with timing discrepancies. This could also be the cause seeking problems, you have to look in two places for data
This isn't a fault of matroska anyway so no point in stating it as a disadvantage. Also converting to what? Not many other containers have VFR support anyway. So you likely should decimate it correctly when converting it.

Basic avisynth way:

CODE Directshowsource("x:\foo.mkv")
ConvertFPS(23.976)
No video format (or at least none of the known ones to my knowledge) support it's own timestamps being variable and specified within it.


QUOTE (scc @ May 17 2007, 08:07 PM)I'm using CCCP, that would seem to suggest it should work
I had a revelation, we have a playback help section here. Why not report it and I'll help?

/me doesn't hijack this thread with something different to it


QUOTE (scc @ May 17 2007, 08:07 PM)Yes, but those library's are installed with VLC, they may even be part of the exe, with CCCP they are seperate and either I've got a bad install or something because it say's it mightn't be able the play MP3's

Your CCCP install is likely borked. Which can happen if you mess up something or have some kind of previous registry entries for certain filters that conflicted. Again I can help you fix that if you ask in a _separate_ thread.


QUOTE (scc @ May 17 2007, 08:07 PM)Yes there is, disable left clicking as play/pause command and this is also most major interface problem
Not much of a solution either. So complain to Inmatrix, the Zoomplayer developer.


QUOTE (hamasusuke @ May 17 2007, 08:50 PM)Save the argument for later, you two. Right now I think our friend wants a question answered in a formal way.
What question? Didn't I answer it already?
 
QUOTE (Harukalover @ May 17 2007, 10:21 PM)QUOTE (hamasusuke @ May 17 2007, 08:50 PM)
Save the argument for later, you two. Right now I think our friend wants a question answered in a formal way.What question? Didn't I answer it already?
Or if we haven't this will help.
Edit: getting formating for quotes right.
P.S. we need an edit tag note
And if any one needs to do nested quote tags take a peek at this first
 
from my experience,
1:10 avi will not run well on my mac
4:10 mkv will not run well on my mac
*not run well=video stalls, out of sinc with sound, etc.

granted, this is likley because my computer is five years old and eitehr needs a new processor or I need to get a new computer all togther but still, other than touka gettan, i really havn't had a problem with avi using VLC player.
 
I just got myself a mac and had no problems playing avi or mkv extension using the vlc player. I also got some kind of plugin so I can watch wmv's. It's called macflip or something like that. I'm still getting used to the transition but so far so good. I'm able to watch all my anime with no problems. There's another program called chroma vision i think. It's something like a vlc player for mac. On top of that, I don't have any problems with sound or video while playing in the vlc player.
 
What are you using to play? I think CCCP might be a bit of a resources hog, I get hang ups with my new laptop (2g cpu, 1g ram) but my previous one had no problems with VLC
Oops, no CCCP for mac natively.
 
when Ayako release Nasarete Airantou or Seto Hanayome the high-res h264 is choppy and sometimes freezes for 6 seconds or more and the sound is still going. with the same res xvid version it plays fine. why is this?
wink.gif
 
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