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Censoring the internet with SOPA


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#1 truth2belief

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 02:39 PM

I was watching TotalBiscuit's videos when he posted something that'll very much hit us all here. This is something even TotalBiscuit is saying and he's completely against piracy. In case no one knows who THE TotalBiscuit is, he's a UK's #1 gaming commentator and probably second in the gaming community after Yogscast, which I might add, SOPA will completely block off 99% of all content from these two. I'm not even in Europe and I wholeheartedly agree as that cynical brit is cynically correct (watch his opinionated mailbox and you'll have to agree with his thought output).

"Americans, your government is trying to **** up the internet again, oppose them urgently"
-TotalBiscuit

sorry for censoring his remark to uncensor the internet. Anyways, I'd like to relay the website info after that quote: http://www.gameranx....nless-you-help/

We may be feeling its effects already.

Edited by truth2belief, 16 December 2011 - 07:35 AM.


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#2 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 02:50 PM

I can guess as to what he said since it does leave little to the imagination here. Besides our US Goverment isn't focused on the right things at all. Pretty much if you block the Indernet pretty much the *chaners might go up in arms over them robbing people of free speach and whathave you. Not only that, but this means we won't be able to watch animus online either.

They claim that people are loosing jobs over the internet, but I don't see that mind you since the interent can't take everyone's job away you know, and with the way the ads shown on TV say that the internet is taking your jobs and whatnot, and piracy is ramppant on the Interent. Quite frankly it's just a scare tatic for the people that are currently jobless and I belive it to be total BS as well.

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#3 warita200

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:31 PM

I must admit I am blissfully ignorant on the whole subject. I did hear something about censorship and the internet a few times over the course of the recent 3 years, but I had only a very marginal interest in the whole matter. Also, if I remember correctly, I hear different things every time this subject comes up, so I have a hard time making any heads or tails out of the topic: sensoring the internet with SOPA

Would somebody be so kind and provide a more elaborate information on what it is about?

But in order to say something on the subject.... internet is a medium, and as such, it will be subjected to censorship just like all the other media out there. We got used to the idea of the internet being a free space, where everybody can do and say whatever he wants and because we are spoiled, we dont want our freedom to be taken away from us. But sad truth is, there will always be power hungry people, who will try to take control and we see that happening already.
In fact, I read a very informative and enlightening article about how certain interest groups filter the internet for information. In fact social media were particularly highlighted as an example and how anti terrorist organisations can track down dangerous interest groups even before they turn into organised criminal fractions using especially designed stastisicial and sociological algorythms and search formulas. But this can be easily abused governments for excersizing control over their citizens. It has even been mentioned that the cuccess behind the recent revolutions in the arab world is partially due to the fact that the said governments sorely underestimated the possibilities for self organisation social media offer. That however will change now.

I deviated a little bit of the original topic I fear.... but my point is: get used to censorship guys, thats not gonna change I am afraid. ph34r.gif

#4 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:37 PM

QUOTE (warita200 @ Dec 15 2011, 03:31 PM)
I deviated a little bit of the original topic I fear.... but my point is: get used to censorship guys, thats not gonna change I am afraid.  ph34r.gif

I can understand what you're trying to get at, but there are people that like thier Internets free and access to animu and/or anything else they are trying to look for. Pretty much if they do this I see YouTube pretty much geting smacked around to the point where it may shut down completely alone with file hosting sites as well. The thing is if those go down people who run those sites will lose revenue and quite frankly you lose jobs in the prosess.

Pretty much censoring the Interent will end out as a Lose-Lose situation where I'm sure people who would belive that this would pass over thier dead bodies if you will. Also, I'm sure people will fight this to the bitter end to the point of where making a joke on the internet pretty much it would be a reason to arrest you if they go that far. rolleyes.gif

Oh web site for people that kind of want to know more:

http://americancensorship.org/

Edited by Kid-Wolf, 15 December 2011 - 09:45 PM.


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#5 JunMisugi

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:59 PM

Somehow I'm getting reminded of "1984" (the book of George Orwell). It is funny, since he wrote it in 1948 and some of it actually comes true in the recent years. Well of course it's not nearly as extreme as it was in his book, but pretty much in every country which has something similar to the first amendment of the US constitution ( freedome of speech), is limiting this right more and more.

Sure, SOPA kind of sounds like all the other upcoming censorship warnings of the recent years at first, and if you are not familar with the subject like Warita you might tend to underestimate the impact that this law could have, since nothing has really happened before, so why now?

Well the scary thing is, that this law resembles for some part ,like TotalBiscuit said on gameranx, the Great Firewall of China. I don't know to what extent you are familiar with it, but heres a short list of websites which are blocked in China due to that law: Facebook, Google, Youtube, Vimeo, Twitter, Picasa, WordPress, wretch, blogspot etc...

I know the US is not China, and it will not be that extreme, but if that law passes it gives strong lobbies the possibility to easily remove unwanted content. I'm not talking about illegal downloads, it would be also already be enough to write a critic about for instance a game and use a screenshot from it.

Also although it is just a law for the US, it goes without saying that it would has an impact on the Internet usage in europe, asia etc as well.

Edited by JunMisugi, 15 December 2011 - 09:59 PM.

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#6 warita200

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 02:52 AM

QUOTE (Kid-Wolf @ Dec 15 2011, 03:37 PM)
I can understand what you're trying to get at, but there are people that like thier Internets free and access to animu and/or anything else they are trying to look for.


I like my anime free. Not that I would mind paying really, but i want to see what i am paying for first.


Anyways, I googled the SOPA bill on wikipedia and..... it doesnt sound good at all. In fact, I remember you talking about this in the past Wolfie and it made my blood simmer back then too.

I am not quite sure, how this law will cause job losses, but there will be a lot of personal losses for me.... if nothing else, I probably will lose accesss to anime, unless some miracle happens. I wonder how this will affect isohunt, tokyotosho and my streaming sites....... will SOPA kill my hobby?


On a side note, when it comes down to anime, it is totally pointless, if you ask me. Because those who want to buy the DVDs will buy them and those who watch anime only online for free and never buy anything, probably will stop watching anime. The problem with anime among other things is, that the free access to it serves as advertising in a way. The music/games/movies industry dont need such a publicity, but anime does, because it is a niche type of entertainment and there are not many ways how an anime fan can come into contact with it and see the quality of the anime in question. In other words, if the companies that hold licences in the US hope they can increase their sales by prohibiting all the streaming sites and what not, they will experiences the biggest surprise of their life. Because in my opinion the anime awareness will drop to minimum and loads of people will just lose interest.... including me.


#7 Kaeru-P

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 02:10 PM

I doubt this would come to fruition since the CONS are too much.

I suggest you try reading this article to see how much the possibility this would Hinder everything than actually help


http://knowyourmeme....line-piracy-act

And for the fact

QUOTE
Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), Yahoo!, eBay, American Express, Google, Reporters Without Borders, and Human Rights Watch


Express their dislike of the policy and THESE ARE BIG NAMES.

If that isn't enough Some congressmen/women and even Obama are completely against it.

http://www.techdirt....ng-the-internet

Edited by lavenderdays, 16 December 2011 - 06:20 PM.


#8 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE (warita200 @ Dec 15 2011, 09:52 PM)
Anyways, I googled the SOPA bill on wikipedia and..... it doesnt sound good at all. In fact, I remember you talking about this in the past Wolfie and it made my blood simmer back then too.

I am not quite sure, how this law will cause job losses, but there will be a lot of personal losses for me.... if nothing else, I probably will lose accesss to anime, unless some miracle happens. I wonder how this will affect isohunt, tokyotosho and my streaming sites....... will SOPA kill my hobby?

Well I'm kind of passionate about seeing that my stomping grounds are going to be censored all due to this idea and whatnot. I mean this will affect not only my useage of the internet but pretty much for everyone world wide.

As for the job loses that I've mentioned, I'm suggesting that those web hosting sites and file hosting sites will be affected to the point of were they cannot make the revenues that they did beforehand. Not only that but it could end up as bad a China since the US does owe them a lot of money.

As for the animus now, I do tend to buy the DVD if they are available of course, but that's if I like the series enough to want to buy it. Also, the way they do the subs in yellow kind of make me want to stick with the fansubs. Yeah I know it's a weak excuse, but I prefer what some sub groups do with how the font looks and what color they use.

Oh if this goes though expect those sites to be either blocked or taken down since I'm sure they would be first on the hit-list you know.

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#9 monsta

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:48 PM

Whilst the new SOPA law may sound bad I am surprised no one mentioned the National Defence Authorization Act (NDAA) that Obama just signed into law breaking his promise to veto the act as it was softened slightly (the president can repeal certain prisoners who are in there). What it means is the US government now has the power to lock up any US citizen on US soil who is deemed to be a "terrorist" without trail or hearing. US citizens will now have the pleasure of sitting on the other side of the bars at Guantanamo Bay (well not that prison but something similar I am sure). Troubling times and you would almost think the government is wanting to move towards a police/military state! I guess the MIC has to justify it's budget or face a cut. Talk about mission creep!

National Defence Authorization Act

I guess the NDAA act is the parent bill to SOPA as the NDAA act has far more wide reaching effects to the SOPA law. It's depressing but to be perfectly honest there are worse things in life... The banking fiasco, depleting critical resources and a crazy economic system built on growth. It's not going to end well and the ramifications will be so big people will forget about SOPA. Then again they maybe reminded of the NDAA laws real fast. There are worse things than the censoring of lolis. I kid you not!

Edited by monsta666, 17 December 2011 - 10:59 PM.


#10 truth2belief

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 01:08 AM

Here's another thing from TotalBiscuit. Now I know I'm using a lot of his material in the case with this forum, but it just seems the best way to share the information.

Edited by truth2belief, 18 December 2011 - 01:32 AM.


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#11 Dirtynator

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 12:43 AM

QUOTE (warita200 @ Dec 15 2011, 02:31 PM)

I deviated a little bit of the original topic I fear.... but my point is: get used to censorship guys, thats not gonna change I am afraid.


I was thinking the same with you when I accidentally bumped onto this article.

http://hothardware.c...r-Personal-Use/

At first I thought it was a joke but after some searching it appears that it is very true and it has been reported in quite a few different places like

http://www.pcmag.com...,2397173,00.asp

or

http://articles.busi...nment-copyright


Maybe there is some common sense left after all. Then again people in the States would sue Mcdonalds because the coffee they bought was too hot and actually winning the case so I don't really know how much the common sense factor applies to them.

For the record this is the case I am talking about:
http://en.wikipedia....27s_Restaurants

Edited by Dirtynator, 19 December 2011 - 12:57 AM.

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#12 Kaeru-P

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 02:39 AM

While it is apparent that in other nations that Censorship does exist on their "net" I Find it wholly impossible to go through especially for a fact that the US houses Big Companies and this isn't just any insignificant company whatsoever Im talking about Google, Yahoo, Youtube, Facebook these guys are all in against the fight and Im not even listing them all, the fact these guys have the capacity to influence the country as a whole. 2nd where are already in an Era of Smartphones and Wireless internet, people are almost 100% dependent on it, now think of HOW this would affect them if this crap happened and people's temper when they lose their internet is in on... a different level per say... again think what happens if they censor it... which is no different from having no connection at all... Occupy wall street is already causing mayhem, even though their ideals are ridiculous

@Dirtynator those are fine examples of what piracy's effect on actual sales do, there has even a study on it by an Japanese university If Im not mistaken. Heck just to prove otherwise that Piracy even helps is that when I DL games and the likes, If I love it I buy it, If it makes me go head over heels for it, I buy it twice and Im not even kidding here.

Censoring the Internet especially in the US where most major big names is like stirring up a hornet's nest no scratch that its practically jumping the middle of the sea full of sharks while wearing a meat suit, whomever is trying to pass this bill is trying to provoke some sort of war.

Though outside this issue censorship IS NOT really a NEGATIVE thing. I learned this in my Professional class, where we discussed IP and laws and stuff. In some cases if used the right way it does help, but in this case its pure retardation.

#13 monsta

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 11:45 PM

QUOTE (lavenderdays @ Dec 19 2011, 03:39 AM)
While it is apparent that in other nations that Censorship does exist on their "net" I Find it wholly impossible to go through especially for a fact that the US houses Big Companies and this isn't just any insignificant company whatsoever Im talking about Google, Yahoo, Youtube, Facebook these guys are all in against the fight and Im not even listing them all, the fact these guys have the capacity to influence the country as a whole. 2nd where are already in an Era of Smartphones and Wireless internet, people are almost 100% dependent on it, now think of HOW this would affect them if this crap happened and people's temper when they lose their internet is in on... a different level per say... again think what happens if they censor it... which is no different from having no connection at all... Occupy wall street is already causing mayhem, even though their ideals are ridiculous.

Censorship of the internet exists in a surprisingly large number of countries particularly in regards to paedophilia. Indeed there is increasing political pressure on expanding the definition of paedophilia material to include animated materials too so lolis and whatnot could be an endangered species. With that said, I don't think the government can really censor the internet. If people are determined they will find ways to spreading the word.

You see, even in places like China the people can access forbidden material so there won't be complete censorship no matter how much the politicians want it. What is more feasible, if it got down to it, is the government could shut down the internet should it get too "troublesome" but that is highly unlikely to happen. And even if that happened they could still spread the message. In Libya despite the internet being shut down by Gaddafi the people connected to the internet via satellite connection or by ad-hoc proxy methods. So total internet censorship is not possible. Closure of the internet is more feasible than complete internet censorship however.

QUOTE (lavenderdays)
Censoring the Internet especially in the US where most major big names is like stirring up a hornet's nest no scratch that its practically jumping the middle of the sea full of sharks while wearing a meat suit, whomever is trying to pass this bill is trying to provoke some sort of war.

I think that can work both ways. A lack of preview/demo version (which I include illegal downloads) could increase sales of the genuine product. However some marginal buyers may not buy the product if an internet or pirated version is sold at a lower price. Album and single sales bombed after the advent of internet downloading so there is evidence that piracy does indeed harm genuine sales. Also if enough people download pirated versions of a product there is a danger a tipping point is reached where the behaviour becomes so ingrained people will refuse to pay for the product. The pornography industry has suffered massively because of widespread free porn that is particularly effective with younger viewers who now refuse to pay for the product as they are used to the free stuff.

#14 Nightdragon

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 04:54 AM

What impresses me about SOPA and the IP Protection Act is how many large companies are backing this even though piracy has helped in many ways. Me personally, I approve of the try before you buy on various accounts, mainly PC games. Who likes to buy a PC game just to unwrap it, take time to install it, just to find out your graphics card can't play it at the settings you wanted (or in some cases even at all).

I understand what monsta666 is saying about how it works both ways. However, it doesn't work both ways for the public, just the people. The day was become ran by economy is the day we will never have freedom in my opinion.
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#15 monsta

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 03:37 PM

QUOTE (Nightdragon @ Dec 30 2011, 05:54 AM)
I understand what monsta666 is saying about how it works both ways. However, it doesn't work both ways for the public, just the people. The day was become ran by economy is the day we will never have freedom in my opinion.

I just wanted to highlight that the piracy can work both ways. As for SOPA well there is not much to debate about that because it clearly is wrong and the fact the law is so vague makes it open to abuse. It is very concerning and I think SOPA and the NDAA acts are sister acts that only serve to undermine the freedoms of Americans and probably by extension other western countries as well. Here is an amusing satire bill on the DCAA act:

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Edited by monsta666, 31 December 2011 - 03:38 PM.


#16 Mowerman

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 02:55 PM

My two cents,

First SOPA is not what they say it is. The purposely vague verbage allows for the Federal Government to, basically, have a signed warrant with the crime committed area left blank, to be filled in by whatever they want to put there. This is not a way to relieve the rampant piracy across the internet. It's a way for Obama and his Nazi cronies to get control of the internet, which he has been threatening to shut down for a while now.

Yes I called them Nazi's. Everything they are trying to do has done before, in Germany. Their blatant power grabs, under the auspices of protecting the American citizens, are ways for the Federal Government to "get control" so they can have everyone under their thumb. Socialized hospice, be that medical or elder care facilities. Euthanasia policies. Government work programs.

Where do they go next? Well, we all seen what happened back in the 40's once the Nazi's had control of the government with the majority of the populace supporting them. If things continue the way they are going, I would seriously expect to see American invasions of Canada and Mexico, claiming it as pacification of regions deemed a threat to the nation or securing resources that should belong to the American people, similar to what the Germans were doing in the early stages World War II.

Initially Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric

Straight from the wiki. Sound familiar? It should. Obama and his group of far right socialist democrats(incidentally, the Nazi party is also classified in this area, far right socialists) have done everything in their power to bring big business down. I feel that big business does have it's drawbacks. Corporate farms and ranches making sole proprietary small business farms and ranches go out of business by underpricing them is a bad thing, and there are other things they have done that are equally harmful to a healthy economy, but without these businesses, the only thing left is for a governmental takeover in the market which leads us back to the Nazi party.

The every man with a shovel program, designed to revitalize America's highway systems.

Again, straight out of Nazi policy. Yes, American road systems need work. Independent studies show that many of the bridges and road systems in America should be condemned as they are not safe for use, yet due to lack of other means of transport, those roadways and bridges are still in use. However, it should be on the back of the corporations who wish to use these roads or the local government (be that state, county, or city level) not the Federal Government, who will use taxes from tax payers ,all over the country, to pay for roads in specific regions. Taxation without representation ring a bell here?

There are also talks proceeding to abolish the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The far right, Nazi politicians, see this as a hinderance to their political agenda because, ultimately, the power resides in the people, not the government, while these acts remain in place. Again, straight out of the Nazi party books and practices. The first thing they did was do away with all other parties and any legislation that was currently in place so they could rewrite the policies, from scratch, to support their way of thinking.

As I see it, the American Nazi party has a puppet leader (Very similar to the original Nazi party, being that Hitler was as far from what they considered as racially superior humans as one could be without being black or jewish) and they are using the fact that he does not meet with their perception of a racially superior human to cover their regime's actions. The sooner they remove this person from power, the better. The people behind this person should be exposed and dealt with as well, in a democratic fashion of course. Impeachment and charges filed for criminal actions.

#17 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:31 PM

While seeing your similarites to the Democratic party and the Nazi party I have to sate there is a slight difference in what you're trying to get at mowerman-san.

Pretty much if you look at the bigger picture this could all be a facillitation all due to the members of the Tea Party destroying the GOP from the inside to the point of where anything useful to recover the country has been blocked from the getgo.

In any case back with this bill after hearing things from a few freinds I tend to hang out with they pretty much said that most of the wording is so vague that pretty much guessing 85% or more of the interent itself could be taken down due to coppyright deals. Pretty much it would mean that they could at anytime close down your Facebook if you have any coppywritten image, and not only that but most if not a lot of YouTube itself would be taken down. Pretty much anything that isn't a business site would pretty much be taken down by the goverment's disgresion it would seem. I mean why would you want to do something as dumb as killing the internets? If it was well written out instead of being rather vague as most laws have been as of late then it would be more of a niche arguement then having internet users argue this as a whole.

Oh yeah as for that other law that was passed pretty much it's more along the line of if you were being rather blatent about doing such things then pretty much they have the right to arrest you, but they still have to notify the President on if they are to keep you indefinetely or not though. Pretty much even Obama himself was saying that he would like the be reasonable over this with American citizens of course.

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#18 Mowerman

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:00 PM

QUOTE (Kid-Wolf @ Jan 11 2012, 10:31 AM)
While seeing your similarites to the Democratic party and the Nazi party I have to sate there is a slight difference in what you're trying to get at mowerman-san.

Pretty much if you look at the bigger picture this could all be a facillitation all due to the members of the Tea Party destroying the GOP from the inside to the point of where anything useful to recover the country has been blocked from the getgo.

In any case back with this bill after hearing things from a few freinds I tend to hang out with they pretty much said that most of the wording is so vague that pretty much guessing 85% or more of the interent itself could be taken down due to coppyright deals. Pretty much it would mean that they could at anytime close down your Facebook if you have any coppywritten image, and not only that but most if not a lot of YouTube itself would be taken down. Pretty much anything that isn't a business site would pretty much be taken down by the goverment's disgresion it would seem. I mean why would you want to do something as dumb as killing the internets? If it was well written out instead of being rather vague as most laws have been as of late then it would be more of a niche arguement then having internet users argue this as a whole.

Oh yeah as for that other law that was passed pretty much it's more along the line of if you were being rather blatent about doing such things then pretty much they have the right to arrest you, but they still have to notify the President on if they are to keep you indefinetely or not though. Pretty much even Obama himself was saying that he would like the be reasonable over this with American citizens of course.

Ahh so you would rather see a democratic led nation that forces bills into action, irregardless if what the people want, because they feel the people are too ignorant to know what is good for them or it doesn't fit their nazi regime policies? The only thing holding things up are the corrupt democrats in the senate and white house. Obama has flat out said he would veto anything that the, now republican majority, congress put up for ratification.

It's interesting to see that the president who fought with white house security to keep his blackberry so he could maintain his online profile now see's the internet as a threat to be shut down because the government. as it is now, is afraid of the freedom of speech allowed there and the lack of control that they, the government, can exert over it. ABObama tv, ObamaBS tv, and NPObama radio can spout their payed for Liberal democratic slanted news coverage all they want. The writing is on the wall.

The law is deliberately vague so the government can use homeland security to round up people who don't agree with their policy. I would not be too surprised to see lots of internet terrorism charges being prosecuted if this bill does make it to law. What's next? Work camps for the people rounded up.

#19 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:22 PM

You frogot to add msnbc and nbc in that issue if you're going for liberal views on things. rolleyes.gif

Although at least those netqweoks do something call journalism which the people at God King's News for the GOP (Fox News) is like.

Pretty much I hoestly can't see the President signing this thing at all, because pretty much most of the Democratic Party is more or less against this in general. It's not about terrorism it's about how this country can find a way to use the Internet to get thier money's worth again.

I mean if you look at it this bill pretty much gives large coperations the right to go out and shut down any interent site they feel that this threating thier business in any way shape or form if you ask me. In any case that's like saying the 1% of the country has the power to controll what the rest of the county thinks, and to top it all off quite frankly the world as well.

The only thing that's completely different with the Nazi Party back in the 40s and the Democratic Party today is that we don't have a crazy person that has an ulterior motive to kill off anyone in the most obvious sense. sleep.gif

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#20 wedora

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:02 PM

I think sopa and its ilk are a result of "road to hell paved with good intentions" by policymakers. Working for a big company, I can understand how those working in the media industry feel they provide a lot of value and really believe controlling information will make for a better web environment. The politicians buy into this rhetoric and end up supporting those beliefs. There are two causes to this, in my eyes: politician's fear of a sinking US influence (whose economy is driven by intellectual property) and a poor understanding of how technologies are simply an expansion of current communications. I don't think people really want to sink us into a feudal age, just honestly believe what they are doing is in the best interests of their country and its people.

First on the us IP issue, us losing our manufacturing ability and becoming a service and IP-driven economy puts policymakers in a tight spot. They fear a situation where IP becomes worthless and the US influence falls off a cliff. This irrational fear is part of the resulting overreaction. The other part, technical illiteracy, comes with time. That's a problem with a fast progressing world and a congress full of chrome domes. They can't comprehend that shutting down a website over user-generated links and content is like shutting down a store because of a drug dealer in the parking lot, or banning searches is like chastising a phone book for listing a number underhandedly used for illicit purposes. Most of all is the innocent until, proven guilty mantra the country runs by, and how they don't understand these acts turn that philosophy upside down. This is why I donate to the EFF and FSF yearly...they act on my behalf and educate those old curmudgeons.

All we can do is continue to educate as well as provide resistance to attempts at curtailing the freedoms extended in the constitution that translate to the digital landscape. Can't remember who said it, but freedom must be continually defended or it will slowly erode. Here's to continued public outcries similar to the GoDaddy backlash and our tech giants educating the policymakers on the dangers of overbearing legislation.

+1 (i would thumb-up your post if i could. well said) - doof
+1 from me as well too - wolfie

Edited by Kid-Wolf, 13 January 2012 - 01:10 AM.

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