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#161 poonk

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE (monsta666 @ May 22 2008, 01:02 PM)
Notice that when a series is licensed they often change the characters age? Instead of calling them school kids they say college students. It's a cheap way of getting round the problem and making it more acceptable to the masses.
This made me chuckle, because I've seen it happen with some licensed yaoi manga too-- I wonder who they think they're kidding with those "college" boys wearing high-school uniforms! But I figure as long as it keeps them (the US publisher) out of some lawsuit or even just unwanted attention from conservative groups, it's a minor thing (*LOL* no pun intended). But didn't that one manga (don't know the title, sorry) get its US release cancelled because of the controversy with the underage girls? (and I don't mean 16-17, they were more like elementary school age)

#162 TheGuardian

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 12:28 AM

hey, man.
once an anime fan. ALWAYS an anime fan. however, as you mature your life becomes a bit more..... crowded. anime just gets pushed in the corner.
also keep in mind our parents' idea of anime is stuff like "Astro Boy". OUR generation will bring it to new heights. And we'll bury the last of the old generation.
HANG STRONG.
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#163 Dalriada

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE (TheGuardian @ May 30 2008, 06:28 PM)
also keep in mind our parents' idea of anime is stuff like "Astro Boy". OUR generation will bring it to new heights. And we'll bury the last of the old generation.

Thinking that Astro Boy is somehow inferior to current animes is is complete contradiction with my opinion, and therefore wrong.

Animes today are an industry, and I'm sorry to say that there's an awful lack of originality (most harem animes are the same, with the names of the characters and the color of the hair changing).
I'm not saying that there's nothing original, nor am I saying that the not-original stuff is bad or uninteresting, but there's not a lot of creation.

I'm as fan of animation as everyone here... But I have to say that in more and more animes, I have a feeling of déjà-vu. Recycling is good for environment, but bad for animes.
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#164 monsta

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:11 PM

QUOTE (Dalriada)
Animes today are an industry, and I'm sorry to say that there's an awful lack of originality (most harem animes are the same, with the names of the characters and the colour of the hair changing).
I'm not saying that there's nothing original, nor am I saying that the not-original stuff is bad or uninteresting, but there's not a lot of creation.

This phenomena isn't limited to anime but also Hollywood or video games. When there is more money in a industry it becomes more risk adverse. People are less willing to risk millions of pounds on risky creative products and will generally go for the safe formulaic plot. It's why sequels are so popular. Hollywood has it's sequels/prequels while anime has its repetitive plots.

Sure like everything in life there are exceptions but I believe it is safe to say anime has become more repetitive than in the past. Are more and more series relying on fanservice than before? I suspect this maybe the case. Not that there wasn't fanservice in the past...

Like Hollywood has improved in special effects anime has got better in the quality of animation. So in some ways the standards of anime are improving. I think it is far more debatable whether the plots are improving. My general feeling is no.

I must say the industry is rather over priced. A series costs me £120 ($220/150 Euros) while a season of the Simpsons (which contains the same number of episodes as an anime season) will only cost £30 ($55/38 Euros). Sure there are more licences involved and you have to pay for dubbers etc but still... It doesn't help to bring in newbies.

QUOTE (Dalriada)
I'm as fan of animation as everyone here... But I have to say that in more and more animes, I have a feeling of déjà-vu. Recycling is good for environment, but bad for animes.

It's one of the reasons I follow sport. The endings aren't always the same (Arsenal doesn't always win, no matter how much I wish it). And there is little recycling (old players are discarded, sometimes ruthlessly).

#165 Dalriada

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE
This phenomena isn't limited to anime but also Hollywood or video games. When there is more money in a industry it becomes more risk adverse. People are less willing to risk millions of pounds on risky creative products and will generally go for the safe formulaic plot. It's why sequels are so popular. Hollywood has it's sequels/prequels while anime has its repetitive plots.


Although the USA are quite creative with the TV series IMHO (24 may be despicable on the political level, but was something new. E.R. or House M.D. changed the deal with 'medical' series).
Because the market is large enough to focus on one part of it (it's less true for the movies, of course).

On the other hand, France has a much smaller market and therefore try to satisfy as much of it as possible. The result is awfully bland series.

I'm not sure how animes fit in this paradigm.

QUOTE

Sure like everything in life there are exceptions but I believe it is safe to say anime has become more repetitive than in the past. Are more and more series relying on fanservice than before? I suspect this maybe the case. Not that there wasn't fanservice in the past...


About the fan service before... Yes, there was a lot of fan service (Think about City Hunter ><).
But somehow, I feel that the fan service was in the anime besides the story, the characters, and not instead of.
It may be a perception bias from me, of course.

QUOTE

Like Hollywood has improved in special effects anime has got better in the quality of animation. So in some ways the standards of anime are improving. I think it is far more debatable whether the plots are improving. My general feeling is no.


It reminds me of the French blockbuster of January, Asterix and the Olympic Games'. The most expensive French movie ever, with a lot of special effects...
And the movie was terrible (a shame, because the comics, especially the earlier books when Goscinny was the storyteller, are really great).

It's the same problem, when your main argument for selling a movie/an anime is something peripherical like FX or fanservice, the chances are high that it will suck.


A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

#166 monsta

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE (Dalriada)
About the fan service before... Yes, there was a lot of fan service (Think about City Hunter ><).
But somehow, I feel that the fan service was in the anime besides the story, the characters, and not instead of.
It may be a perception bias from me, of course.

I base my opinion on watching older series. When I see Akira, Space adventure cobra, Escaflownea, Wicked city and compare it to Code Geass and Mnemosyne I think there is more fanservice today. Certainly more pointless fanservice that doesn't serve any purpose for character/plot development. Like you said I could be biased.

Another curious thing I have seen. People often say anime isn't for children it's more adult. Yet when people watch anime they say I'm still a child at heart or I haven't grown up. Contradiction in terms? It's interesting because I never hear a football fan say they're still a child at heart for supporting a club. Even if they start crying when their team lose (did you see John Terry?). Is there something inherently childish about watching anime or are people simply being influenced by societies views on cartoons?

#167 Dalriada

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (monsta666 @ Jun 02 2008, 02:27 PM)
Another curious thing I have seen. People often say anime isn't for children it's more adult. Yet when people watch anime they say I'm still a child at heart or I haven't grown up. Contradiction in terms?

The problem is with the word 'adult', which can mean either mature or just unsuitable for children.

Let's take an example. My brother bought a video game last week, Age of Conan.
It features barbarians cutting heads with their two-handed axes, females with generous blosom and few clothes... and of course it's advertised as an adult game...
Except, like porn movies and cheap vodkas, it interests mainly teenagers, not real adults.

A lot of animes are like that. Not suitable for children, but not mature at all.

PS : Space adventure cobra has the award of the less-clothed-but-not-completely-naked women and Escaflowne has some random catgirls appearing in the story for no good reasons. tongue.gif
In both cases, it's rather pointless (You could do without, since it doesn't influence the story), but it doesn't 'define' characters. On the other hand, Mnemosyne, if you remove boobs and lesbian sex... then the smallest girl -can't remember her name- is totally invisible.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

#168 khael

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 03:53 PM

QUOTE
Another curious thing I have seen. People often say anime isn't for children it's more adult. Yet when people watch anime they say I'm still a child at heart or I haven't grown up. Contradiction in terms? It's interesting because I never hear a football fan say they're still a child at heart for supporting a club. Even if they start crying when their team lose (did you see John Terry?). Is there something inherently childish about watching anime or are people simply being influenced by societies views on cartoons?


I agree on the cartoons part. Just because it's 2d animation most adults i encounter tend to comment like "Aren't you too old to be watching cartoons?" and i keep correcting them that it's not a cartoon it's an anime. Anyway i think you're on to something here. The presumption that all 2d animated movies/shows are all for kids, although i think that point of view is steadily dwindling.
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#169 monsta

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE (Dalriada @ Jun 02 2008, 11:11 PM)
Let's take an example. My brother bought a video game last week, Age of Conan.
It features barbarians cutting heads with their two-handed axes, females with generous blosom and few clothes... and of course it's advertised as an adult game...
Except, like porn movies and cheap vodkas, it interests mainly teenagers, not real adults.

A lot of animes are like that. Not suitable for children, but not mature at all.

As usual you hit the nail in the head.

QUOTE (khael @ Jun 06 2008, 04:53 PM)
I agree on the cartoons part. Just because it's 2d animation most adults i encounter tend to comment like "Aren't you too old to be watching cartoons?" and i keep correcting them that it's not a cartoon it's an anime.

But anime are cartoons! The only difference is that anime series are produced in Japan. The main problem is people outside this area don't make the distinction between Japanese cartoons and American cartoons. They also assume all cartoons are the same. It's quite similar to how people say I don't like sport instead of I don't like football.

#170 khael

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 06:37 PM

QUOTE
But anime are cartoons! The only difference is that anime series are produced in Japan. The main problem is people outside this area don't make the distinction between Japanese cartoons and American cartoons. They also assume all cartoons are the same. It's quite similar to how people say I don't like sport instead of I don't like football.


Actually that is what i meant. Haha, i kinda used the wrong words. Yes when most people who have seen American cartoons [I'll just use cartoons for Western animation and Anime for Japanese, i'm kinda used to it anyway so pardon me.] see anime they tend to pass it off a just "cartoons". Well there are some anime and cartoons that are intended for kids, and most people who haven't encountered Death Note or GITS would pass them off as "kid stuff".
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"If it's for the sake of seeing others suffer, no effort is too great." ~Prince Baka

If you're going to enforce rules, don't be a hypocrite. You know who you are.

Things to note when reading my posts:
I have bad memory.
I'm like that anime character who's bad with names. I'm literally bad with names and faces.
I'm tired of political correctness/correctness in general, screw that, this is the internet.
Spelling liek dis doesn't necessitate illiteracy. U call it linguistic anarchy i.e. being lazy.
Also, I ****ed YOU'RE mom.

#171 Dalriada

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 07:21 PM

While I won't argue with what you say, Khael, I'd like to point out that few animes fans really know Western adult animation.
How many have watched Heavy Metal, The Triplets of Belleville or Persepolis ?

While those animation movies are not mainstream, they do exist.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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#172 EricAnimeFreak

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 12:48 AM

Okay below i've included both the definition for Anime and Cartoons. As you may note, Anime use to be called Japananimation, but was then shortend to ANIME. When people make the mistake of calling anime "a cartoon" in front of me it pisses me off, i ussually give them a lecture.

ANIME! is not short for animation, but is short for Japanese Animation.

As for me, i will always be overly addicted to anime, i am almost 21 and i seem to find the biggest reason why people or adults don't like anime is lack of time. Also people who try to get into anime often sterotype itAnd when you force them too come try and watch it with you, they think they have to hate it. Really american culture breeds us to hate childish things. And what they don't relize is the majority of anime is not childish, but their brainwashed to think it is. Now i know people in college who love anime and others who call me childish for it, but when i see people in the anime aisle in malls, the majority are adults or teenagers. Parents really probably are too busy to try something new like anime, so they can't even give it a fair chance. Often an adult will make any escuse to even avoid the issue, most people who say they don't liek anime, and when they try to defend their postion either they can't, won't, or fail terriblly at it.

I happen to know a co-worker who is 60 years old, he had never watched anime. I gave him a few discs to try (about 7 series) and now he rewatches them all the time with his wife. I think age is not a matter when it comes to anime, more it is our upbringing, i think well find as we get older, and anime becomes more popular and widely watched in america, the sterotypes and stigmas atttached to it will fade, i hope.

Also, was it ever really made lcear in this topic weather this thread pertained to why adults don't like to watch anime or is it about hentia? Cause while i read all the posts before posting, i just never really got a clear answer....


Anime Defined

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an·i·me /ˈænəˌmeɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-uh-mey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
a Japanese style of motion-picture animation, characterized by highly stylized, colorful art, futuristic settings, violence, and sexuality.
[Origin: 1985–90; < Japn, borrowing of E animation]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
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anime

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an·i·me Audio Help (ān'ə-mā') Pronunciation Key
n. A style of animation developed in Japan, characterized by stylized colorful art and often adult themes.

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Main Entry: anime
Part of Speech: n
Definition: See Japanimation

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anime
c.1985, Japanese for "animation," a term that seems to have arisen in the 1970s, apparently based on the Eng. word. Manga (q.v.) is Japanese for "comic book, graphic novel," but anime largely are based on manga and until 1970s, anime were known as manga eiga or "TV manga." The two terms are somewhat confused in Eng.

Cartoon Defined

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car·toon Audio Help /kɑrˈtun/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kahr-toon] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a sketch or drawing, usually humorous, as in a newspaper or periodical, symbolizing, satirizing, or caricaturing some action, subject, or person of popular interest.
2. comic strip.
3. animated cartoon.
4. Fine Arts. a full-scale design for a picture, ornamental motif or pattern, or the like, to be transferred to a fresco, tapestry, etc.
–adjective
5. resembling a cartoon or caricature: The novel is full of predictable, cartoon characters, never believable as real people.
–verb (used with object)
6. to represent by a cartoon.
–verb (used without object)
7. to draw cartoons.
[Origin: 1665–75; < It cartone pasteboard, stout paper, a drawing on such paper, equiv. to cart(a) paper (see carte) + -one aug. suffix]

—Related forms
car·toon·ish, adjective
car·toon·ist, noun
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cartoon

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car·toon Audio Help (kär-tōōn') Pronunciation Key
n.

1.
1. A drawing depicting a humorous situation, often accompanied by a caption.
2. A drawing representing current public figures or issues symbolically and often satirically: a political cartoon.
2. A preliminary sketch similar in size to the work, such as a fresco, that is to be copied from it.
3. An animated cartoon.
4. A comic strip.
5. A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation: criticized the actor's portrayal of Jefferson as a historically inaccurate cartoon.


v. car·tooned, car·toon·ing, car·toons

v. tr.
To draw a humorous or satirical representation of; caricature.

v. intr.
To make humorous or satirical drawings.


[French carton, drawing, from Italian cartone, pasteboard; see carton.]

car·toon'ish, car·toon'y adj., car·toon'ist n.
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cartoon
1671, from Fr. carton, from It. cartone "strong, heavy paper, pasteboard," thus "preliminary sketches made by artists on such paper," augmentive of M.L. carta "paper" (see card (n.)). Extension to comical drawings in newspapers and magazines is 1843. Cartoonist first recorded 1880.

"Punch has the benevolence to announce, that in an early number of his ensuing Volume he will astonish the Parliamentary Committee by the publication of several exquisite designs, to be called Punch's Cartoons!" ["Punch," June 24, 1843]
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#173 Dalriada

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 07:45 AM

QUOTE
Okay below i've included both the definition for Anime and Cartoons. As you may note, Anime use to be called Japananimation, but was then shortend to ANIME. When people make the mistake of calling anime "a cartoon" in front of me it pisses me off, i ussually give them a lecture.


It's a good thing people don't care, because they might answer that your logic is flawed.
Even if animes are Japanese cartoon, they are still cartoons.
Or your point is that Japanes animation is a special snowflake ? While animes have some specific characteristic, I've some difficulties to say that the overwhelming majority of animes are more 'adult' than... Avatar : The Last Airbender, Gargoyles or even Darkwing Duck.
Sure, you can find some exceptions (Mushishi....), but they are exceptions. And not the most popular exceptions imho (at least far far less that Naruto/Bleach).

Anecdot : My father is completely uninterested by animes. And yet he likes watching a Tex Avery sometimes.
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

#174 khael

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:03 AM

QUOTE
While I won't argue with what you say, Khael, I'd like to point out that few animes fans really know Western adult animation.
How many have watched Heavy Metal, The Triplets of Belleville or Persepolis ?

While those animation movies are not mainstream, they do exist.


Ooooh Belleville Rendezvous... Thanks for bringing back some good memories. I see what you're saying, besides a number of anime fans are from the West so i get what you're saying.


QUOTE
Also, was it ever really made lcear in this topic weather this thread pertained to why adults don't like to watch anime or is it about hentia? Cause while i read all the posts before posting, i just never really got a clear answer....


You will never get a clear cut answer anyway since why people watch/don't watch anime is quite individualistic. There are various reasons, some applying to a number of individuals while others may apply to only one.

QUOTE
It's a good thing people don't care, because they might answer that your logic is flawed.
Even if animes are Japanese cartoon, they are still cartoons.
Or your point is that Japanes animation is a special snowflake ? While animes have some specific characteristic, I've some difficulties to say that the overwhelming majority of animes are more 'adult' than... Avatar : The Last Airbender, Gargoyles or even Darkwing Duck.
Sure, you can find some exceptions (Mushishi....), but they are exceptions. And not the most popular exceptions imho (at least far far less that Naruto/Bleach).

Anecdot : My father is completely uninterested by animes. And yet he likes watching a Tex Avery sometimes.


OMG Gargoyles and Darkwing Duck, thanks for a few more memories.
I see now, i guess i had the answer on the tip of my tongue but brought out the wrong ideas again. So the "cartoons/anime are for kids" notion do not root from any regional [Western/Eastern] cultural root but rather from the experience of watching "animation intended for kids" as they grow up. It's not really whether or not it's Japanese or Western, it's about the content. Haha props to you for hitting the nail again.
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"If it's for the sake of seeing others suffer, no effort is too great." ~Prince Baka

If you're going to enforce rules, don't be a hypocrite. You know who you are.

Things to note when reading my posts:
I have bad memory.
I'm like that anime character who's bad with names. I'm literally bad with names and faces.
I'm tired of political correctness/correctness in general, screw that, this is the internet.
Spelling liek dis doesn't necessitate illiteracy. U call it linguistic anarchy i.e. being lazy.
Also, I ****ed YOU'RE mom.

#175 monsta

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 11:24 AM

QUOTE (EricAnimeFreak @ Jun 08 2008, 01:48 AM)
I am almost 21 and I seem to find the biggest reason why people or adults don't like anime is lack of time. Also people who try to get into anime often sterotype it And when you force them too come try and watch it with you, they think they have to hate it.


I would also include priorities but more importantly most anime series do not lend themselves to the casual viewer. Many anime series have an ongoing plot and if a person doesn't catch it from the beginning they won't be able to follow it easily and will lose interest. It could explain why non-anime viewers quickly get bored. Also a 26/13 series takes a lot of time to watch so by this fact alone you'll always limit your audience. Things like movies and stand alone episodes are for more accessible to the general public as they take up less time.

If you want a person to watch anime make them watch a movie or a few OVA episodes. Leave the series for later.

QUOTE (EricAnimeFreak)
Really American culture breeds us to hate childish things. And what they don't realise is the majority of anime is not childish, but their brainwashed to think it is. Now i know people in college who love anime and others who call me childish for it, but when i see people in the anime aisle in malls, the majority are adults or teenagers.

Parents really probably are too busy to try something new like anime, so they can't even give it a fair chance. Often an adult will make any excuse to even avoid the issue, most people who say they don't like anime, and when they try to defend their position either they can't, won't, or fail terribly at it.


I think your unfair on Americans. People outside America also think anime is childish. In any case I feel the perception comes from peoples' past experience of cartoons which are often childish. Flick to nickelodeon and tell me how many cartoons are aimed at children. Due to a lack of knowledge they assume anime is the same as Western cartoons. It's a common theme for example if people don't know much about European countries they fail to make the distinction between France, Britain or Germany. For example they'll say Europe is like this instead of France is like that.

QUOTE (EricAnimeFreak)
Also, was it ever really made clear in this topic weather this thread pertained to why adults don't like to watch anime or is it about hentai? Cause while i read all the posts before posting, i just never really got a clear answer....


Hentai is a genre of anime so I suppose you could include it here. However most people would deem hentai unsuitable to children. So there would be less debate in that matter. Furthermore this site does not show hentai so naturally you would get less discussion on the subject. Saying that hentai may illustrate a point about anime (just less extreme). What is unsuitable for kids may not actually be mature! Hence the conflict in opinions on whether anime is for adult or for kids.

Oh and for clarification most people are talking about anime! NOT hentai. People outside the anime circle show even more ridicule to hentai than anime. I often hear comments like:

I can't believe people watch cartoon porn!

Hentai maybe partly responsible for peoples' negative attitude towards anime in general. It's why some people class anime as perverse or even porn. Stupid I know but the attitude exists (I believe there is a thread dedicated to this).

#176 Dalriada

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE
So the "cartoons/anime are for kids" notion do not root from any regional [Western/Eastern] cultural root but rather from the experience of watching "animation intended for kids" as they grow up. It's not really whether or not it's Japanese or Western, it's about the content. Haha props to you for hitting the nail again.


The main difference is probably the overwhelming place of Disney in the animation industry in the USA (and consequently in Europe).
With the consequence that when people think about American animation, they think of Disney in a first time. And most Disney's series are indeed for kids (with some exceptions of course, like Gargoyles, which aims the same public than Naruto or Bleach. Speaking of Disney, I'd like to express my love for Don Karnage from Talespin, one of the greatest villains ever! wink.gif).

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QUOTE

Hentai maybe partly responsible for peoples' negative attitude towards anime in general.


Seriously, I've the impression that most people uninterested by animes are not even aware of the existence of hentai. I've hear a lot of complains about an excessive 'sexualization' in classical mangas/animes, but never about hentais (since they are not really easily available. Except when the shop manager is stupid and put Black Bible next to Naruto. Yes, I saw it).

Edit : Oh, I see !
We don't have the Mail, and our trashy newspapers seems more interest by those migrants stealing our jobs or by the last Britney Spears' baby-dropping than by hentais.

Edit of the Edit : In the French press (I mean the rather serious press), the good critical reviews of some animation movies (Ghibli of course, but also Perfect Blue, Tokyo Godfathers, Paprika etc) and even some animated series (Nana comes to mind) have done some good to Japanese animation's reputation.
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#177 monsta

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:10 PM

QUOTE (Dalriada @ Jun 08 2008, 01:24 PM)
Seriously, I've the impression that most people uninterested by animes are not even aware of the existence of hentai. I've hear a lot of complains about an excessive 'sexualization' in classical mangas/animes, but never about hentais (since they are not really easily available. Except when the shop manager is stupid and put Black Bible next to Naruto. Yes, I saw it).

I don't think knowledge of hentai is necessary. Most people outside the anime circle only gain exposure to the genre through papers/magazines. Often these sources want to make a sensational story (think Daily Mail wink.gif). These papers will then pick some hentai titles out of the hat and try and make out all anime titles are like that (tentacle rape is a common theme brought up). People get disgusted and think all anime is some perverted form of porn. It's why I said hentai is partly responsible for this attitude.

Off course cultural differences between Japan and Western countries also plays its part. Going by many anime materials it seems the Japanese attitudes towards sexual content seems more relaxed. Whether or not this is true in reality is different matter all together.

Edit: Celebrities and damning reports are more in vogue here. When they talk about anime though it is never good. Shocking headlines are more entertaining than the truth.

#178 khael

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 02:30 PM

QUOTE
I don't think knowledge of hentai is necessary. Most people outside the anime circle only gain exposure to the genre through papers/magazines. Often these sources want to make a sensational story (think Daily Mail ). These papers will then pick some hentai titles out of the hat and try and make out all anime titles are like that (tentacle rape is a common theme brought up). People get disgusted and think all anime is some perverted form of porn. It's why I said hentai is partly responsible for this attitude.


So basically what you're saying is that people tend to generalize on Japanese animation with basis on first impressions regardless of the genre? I do quite see it, especially with the lot of conservatives putting up blogs and articles and what not against anime. I've even seen one using ONLY Higurashi as a basis and none other.

QUOTE
Off course cultural differences between Japan and Western countries also plays its part. Going by many anime materials it seems the Japanese attitudes towards sexual content seems more relaxed. Whether or not this is true in reality is different matter all together.


Let's face it, to certain people Japanese culture would rather seem very weird. I've seen comments like that.
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#179 EricAnimeFreak

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 07:06 PM

First off, i may be hard on Americans, but then again, i am american, and i see it. Even my own sister is a bias anime hater. She love old cartoons though, i don't get it. I watched tons of cartoons as a kid, eventually i got old enough and relized that they weren't good anymore. Well i picked up anime which was differnt, aimed at adults primaily, runs in a series, more realistic, it was just plain bettter.

Now i beleive adults have trouble defining anime because they refuse to even try it, that's my arugment. It's a strict argument, it's not a matter of what anime or cartoon is being watched, but thier upbrining and attitudes towards it.

And yes Anime has it's cartoony equivalents, just as Americans or other coutnries have their own anime equivalents, however i am reffering to the majority of media presented. And yeah i know you guys are gonan quote and critize me, but this is what i have observed in malls, at my on home, at school and college, observation is the basis for any scientific analysis, and i take up any endevour scientifically.

And yeah i agree that hentia is another class of genre of anime, and most should not be exposed to it due to its controversey. But have you ever read the history of comics and america and compared it to the history of manga, which is the basis of anime?
You will find comics in america were origanally used politically or point out blunders in society, not so much art as it was just funny and another way to bring you news.
Japanese manga was born out of a need for porn, yes porn. And due to this it has always been oritented in the majority towards conservative adults. It has always been a artform that is more then news, but a greta medium to tell a great story. While american cartoons only recently started to incorperate in depth stories into their works. Also has no one else noticed the influx of americans trying to copy japanese style of art in their drawings?

Also, i hate disney, but i lvoed it as a kid, heck i may choose to watch a disney movie if i'm with my older sister or brother, but only because of that. I even actully thought to put a famous quote from Walt Disney, saying that his cartoons were for enjoyment of kids. While steamboat charlie started to run. Manga was expressing the so-called unmentionables to kids or going into things adults wouldn't tell them, heck my mom still talks about how she wasn't allowed to get a haircut or wear jeans as a kid, but now can thanks to the movements that struck america. However for japan is for anime, and america made music, least thats how i see it.
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#180 Dalriada

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 11:45 PM

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Well i picked up anime which was differnt, aimed at adults primaily, runs in a series, more realistic, it was just plain bettter.


HAHAHAHAHAHA !

Non, serieusement...
We've understand you're an anime integrist, but try to be a bit more subtle. Most animes are aimed at kids or teenagers and few even try to be realistic.
An hint : Why do you think so many heroes in animes are high-schoolers ? Identification. That should tell you what's the main market.

QUOTE
And yes Anime has it's cartoony equivalents, just as Americans or other coutnries have their own anime equivalents, however i am reffering to the majority of media presented.


In your previous message, you seemed to say there was an essentiel difference between animes and cartoons.
If the only difference is that more cartoons are aimed at children than animes, then it's a weak difference. Especially since we know few things about animes-aimed-at-children, because of a sample bias : we know Japanese animes from websites/reviews/forums, which are interested mainly about animes aimed at teenagers.
And yet, I bet Doreamon or Totoro are better known worldwide than Naruto or Ichigo (Naruto has never been appointed ambassador by the Japanese Foreign Minister tongue.gif )

About the mainstreamness of cartoons for teenagers, it's far from a few undergrounds series. Gargoyles, the whole DC animated universe (Batman/Superman/JLU), Avatar are mainstream.
If you want to look at Europe, the old Ulysses 31 or the Mysterious cities of gold and the new Skyland or Oban Star-racers don't have to be ashamed of the comparaison with Japanese animes.
I'm not speaking about a little cartoon made by two and half cursed artists in the basement in the downtown, but about quite famous series.

By the way, your scienfic method could be improved imho. smile.gif

QUOTE
But have you ever read the history of comics and america and compared it to the history of manga, which is the basis of anime?
You will find comics in america were origanally used politically or point out blunders in society, not so much art as it was just funny and another way to bring you news.


I'm well aware of the history of US comics (the CCA for example). It didn't prevent Fritz the Cat, Maus or The Watchers from being written.
You're also missing the existence of a very lively European comics industry, which have a significant influence (Jean Giraud / Moebius is the first example coming to my mind : French comics artist, worked with Stan Lee, friend with Hayao Miyazaki...).

QUOTE
Japanese manga was born out of a need for porn, yes porn. And due to this it has always been oritented in the majority towards conservative adults.


The manga under its current form is often said to be fathered by the God of Manga Osamu Tezuka. He isn't known for his porn stories, strangely enough.
Of course, I'd have agreed if you had said that mangas didn't have to support the burden of American puritanism.

I'll pass on your claim that mangas are art while comics aren't. It's unsupported and quite unsupportable. And the last paragraph doesn't really make sense, sorry.


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