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#201 Dalriada

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 08:24 AM

QUOTE (Kit-Tsukasa @ Dec 24 2008, 04:47 PM)


QUOTE

I haven't seen Dallas or Beverly Hills 90210 (nor have I heard of them), but from what I've seen classmates and friends watch stuff like Gossip Girl, etc... it usually plays on the idea of sex in a very "funny" manner apparently from what I've seen based on reactions of the show from my classmates.


Then trust me on this one : they are not comical at all.

QUOTE

uhh...I think I'll stop there as I have a slightly different opinion about this at times.  Now for Russia being east or west depends on the time period.  Pre-World War 2, I believe it was West.  Nowadays, it's East I think.  They tend to shift, especially after the shift towards communism post World War II.


The split is not only historical but also geographical.
Saint-Petersbourg or Moscow are quite firmly attached to the East-European culture (or the opposite), whereas Siberia or all the little republics in the south like chechnya are not.


QUOTE
There's a saying most of us know that history repeats itself.  This is where this theory is from.  It's also a psychological thing that have been analyzed many times in the past.  I'm no psychology expert nor do I have a huge interest in it, but I remember coming across an article a while back in 2003-2004 around the time when the Iraq War started.  Because the US was founded based on violence (Revolutionary War) and reunited under violence (Civil War), war and violence simply runs through the blood of Americans.  I also remember reading something like this regarding torture in my English class this pass semester.  It talks about a very similar thing where the US simply likes to look down on people and remain strong and this is coming from a US author herself.  The government resorts to torture to not only feel superior but also believe that force and violence is the only way to apprehend terrorists and other criminals in today's society.


I've read the exact opposite argument. smile.gif
That the USA, whose last war on its own territories was a thing of the past (the last one was when ? 1812, when the English burned the White House, if I remember correctly), lack empathy toward the nations at war.
One the other hand, Europe (or Japan indeed), having suffer bitterly during the last world war, are far more cautious with the idea of full-scale war.

QUOTE

This is simply because these titles are ongoing and have been ongoing for a while.  This was the same for Inuyasha, Ranma 1/2 and the like when they first started, but are now over.  If you compare with some manga or even anime that are about 2 volumes and done with the story, it's something you pick up and are finished with when done reading.


I don't understand your argument.
It's the same thing with Naruto or One piece : the volume 1, or even 10 is not longer a best-seller.
But among the releases of the year, the newest books of Naruto/Bleach/One Piece are among the best-sellers in Japan.

Maybe you want to argue that if the are best-sellers, it's because there's nothing else published this year, nothing 'non-violent'.
But if it's true, if "slice-of-life" stories work so well, why publishers don't publish them ?
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#202 ddrfr33k

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 05:49 PM

QUOTE (CodeGeassWatchingIdiot @ Nov 14 2008, 09:31 PM)
its like trying to teach an adult that family guy or south park is more then just constant swearing its jokes that have actual meaning, also some animes like code geass and bleach have a couple themes that could appeal only to teens, anyway I think theres mainly a point i have to make that the misunderstanding between adults and youth will go on forever, if any of us younger users on here ever have kids someday we'll problably not understand them also, in my opinion this is the hardest thing in life i have to cope with

One way that I've introduced "normal" people to anime is to recommend "Grave of the Fireflies" or "Spirited Away." Both have deep plot lines, while not being overly difficult to understand. The former is especially powerful for the baby boomer and earlier generations. Above all else, I tell people to "find their nitch." They're not going to like every series out there, nor are they supposed to. They have to find what they like and go with it.

#203 monsta

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 07:44 PM

Sex and violence sells. It doesn't really matters where you're from, these themes are always successful wherever you go. Look at anime, the level of sex is pretty high; it's one of the reasons why people often mistake anime for pornography. The level of sex is higher than what people are used to. Violence is also a fairly common theme so I'm not sure if we can say Eastern tastes are significantly different to the West.

Saying that, non-violent animes can also be popular. Just look at Clannad and how many votes it got in the best anime threads! laugh.gif I guess this is one area that separates anime from other cartoons. You don't really get a Western equivalent to Clannad and this genre is very popular in anime.

About viewing/selling figures, Western audiences are at the mercy of anime distributors. They will only watch the anime these distributors provide. Seeing as a lot of anime series are never licensed it will always mean that Western audience will have different top-sellers. As for Pokemon, the children's market is very fickle and they get tired of things quickly. At its hay day Pokemon was very popular but then people got bored... And moved to Naruto/Bleach. We first had Dragonball then Pokemon now it's Naruto/Bleach. What next? rolleyes.gif

#204 ippikineko

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 12:06 PM

I know this point has been brought up before, but I think the idea that most "adults" have about anime just being "cartoons" and for children is one of the big aspects, at least for those who aren't anime retirees.

While anime and cartoons may seem like interchangeable terms, I'd like to mention that maybe the term "animation" is more suited to anime, as "cartoon" tends to imply that it is a genre, instead of a medium through which stories can be portrayed.

Most "uninitiated" adults who I've run into, including my parents, tend to view "anime" as one specific thing. That is the type of mindset that leads to the belief that all anime is either Pokemon...or Porn. Even some of the "initiated" adults I know, sometimes have mostly lost interest in anime because its all "the same anymore", without realizing that maybe they just need to look for a different genre of show.

The thing is, anime is a medium through which genres are told and sold. Shows within the genres try and sell themselves similarly to other shows in that genre, mainly because it's worked before. For example, Action movie fans don't usually complain about action movies being similar, even though they usually are. People who aren't fans of that type of movie would probably be fine just watching a couple of them at most. The same goes for most genres. I think if more people thought of anime as a more general term, then there would be less adults who "grow out of it" or consider it to be an immature past-time. It may also be one of the reasons that "uninitiated" adults seem to tend to be quite accepting of Studio Ghibli movies like Howl's Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke while turning up their nose at most anime TV series.
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#205 Kilahatra

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 05:48 AM

I'm an adult and I love Anime! I didn't really watch it until I was 25. I'm now 31 and share what I watch with my 12 year old son. Yes most people consider me odd, or "childish" when I talk about Anime, but the stories are amazing. I've watched all the good ones, like Bleach, Blood +, Trinity Blood, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Inuyasha, just to name a few. I'm pretty sure when I'm old and gray, I'll still be watching Anime. Truth is, I don't find many adults who enjoy it, and the adults I do know who watch it, act like kids themselves. I'm a pretty responsible person, who shares Anime with everyone. biggrin.gif


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#206 warita200

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 06:58 AM

QUOTE (Kilahatra @ Sep 25 2010, 11:48 PM)
I'm an adult and I love Anime! I didn't really watch it until I was 25. I'm now 31 and share what I watch with my 12 year old son.

You story seems similar to mine. I also started at 25.... a bit late, but frankly I dont understand why people consider anime for children only.

What @ippikineko said about finding the right niche is very true. I have been tempted in the past to draw some of my friends into anime, with varying degrees of success. My first roomie got hooked, maybe even too much... especially when she started watching a long series, she couldnt stop until she watched it all, neglecting studies and other things. In the end she had to quit watching anime, because she has no self discipline. As for other people.... I never had as much success with them as I had with my roomie. Some watched a show or two just to make me happy, but I never felt they are particularly excited about anime and at some point they just didnt have any time to continue watching. This lead me to believe, that either anime really isnt their thing or I just didnt recommend the right genre. In order to get hooked to anime, you have to see THE anime for you, the golden anime that will change your outlook on animes for the rest of the life. Alas people have different tastes and I can only recommend what I personally like, right?

So, what do I recommend to people, who have never watched animes? I usually tell them to watch Death Note. The reason why I recommend this anime so often is because it has a real life feeling to it and so it isnt so out of the world for non-anime people. If we disregard the supernatural elements of it (shinigamis, magical notebook, etc), it is pretty realistic and it touches up on some very in depth, ethical themes. The supernatural elements serve only to support what this anime is really about. Hence I think it is a good introduction into the anime world. It has a deeper meaning and it introduces the unaccustumed audience to supernatural elements that are so characteristic for anime in a very natural kind of way.
I also like(d) to recommend Samurai Champloo, as I consider it a splendid anime and again I think it is a natural way to introduce people to anime, because no supernatural elements and the historical quality might spark peoples interest.

However, I must say I stopped trying to introduce people to anime. My reasoning is this: Who is destined to like anime, becomes a fan without my help. Everybody is exposed to anime at some point in their life. Everybody used to be a child and had access to TV and hence watched anime. If the love for animes was strong enough, that person will continue watching as a teenager and even as an adult too. I think those who love anime enough will find a way into it and those who dont.... well, save your effort, its wasted on them.

#207 markers15

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE (Kilahatra @ Sep 25 2010, 11:48 PM)
I'm an adult and I love Anime! I didn't really watch it until I was 25. I'm now 31 and share what I watch with my 12 year old son.


~Kilahatra~

I WISH MY PARENTS WERE THAT UNDERSTANDING!!!!!!!!!.My sister is 17 yrs old and my parents caught her watching claymore and they were MAD just imagine if they had caught me.She still watches it though(and alot of animes my parents dont know about ) but she sneaks around.Its all ON DEMAND but my parents dont know to find it .Now we watch our anime when its late at night or there out of the house dry.gif

#208 kbtkbt

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 01:11 AM

I am also 31, i watched anime since 10 years old. 5 year ago my mom (50 years) was curious and watched with me an anime called "Noir". She is HOOKED and finished the anime with me.

Claymore shouldn't hurt, if you want to watch something gore, blood and violence then I would recommend "Elfen Lied".

I wander why some parents get upset when their kids watch anime?

#209 Kilahatra

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 01:56 AM

Some of the anime's are not something I would let my younger children watch, and even my 12 yr old wouldn't watch some of them if he wasn't obsessed with horror like I am. Elfen Lied was pretty good too!

#210 daedalron

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Kilahatra @ Oct 04 2010, 07:56 PM)
Some of the anime's are not something I would let my younger children watch

Well, some of them weren't ever meant for children to see them laugh.gif

#211 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:26 AM

I guess aside from the prime example of Elfen Lied there are a few others mind you. Must I bring up Kanokon to this discussion. Oddly enough it was aired Saturday moring in Japan, but I'm guessing that's something along the line of just a normal weekday for us.

In any case another prime example would be the When they Cry series. Yes I'm talking about Higruashi and Umineko. While granted they do have thier happy fun time moments to were anyone can watch, but almost like the flip of a switch death everywere.

The only problem I still see with how some adults see anime, granted I'm now one for a few years mind you tongue.gif , is that it only fits into to categories. Although to be honest it's pretty much like any other normal TV show or movie. So in other words you can't just classify anime into just two categories.

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#212 Elssha

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 08:26 PM

i think that goes with a lot of adults expecting cartoon to basically equal 'made for kids'
...and while shows like the simpsons and family guy and such have changed that, I think a lot of them still hold 'kids show' as the first assumption. Also, the quirks seen in most anime (be they funny emotion expressions like falling over or other such things) seem silly to adults and thus make even some of the ones intended for a more mature audience seem childish (and therefore, for children rolleyes.gif ). Also, with kid shows sometimes going dark (yet being for kids... batman beyond comes to mind) adults also seem to accept the 'darker' cartoons in the 'children's' category. Just my $0.02
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#213 mike2238

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 11:40 PM

Hello,

I've been watching anime since I was about six-teen and always wrote off people who think it's just another form of kid's entertainment as ignorant. Well I am thirty now, and I'm still watching anime. I watch very few new shows however. My time is mostly occupied with the stuff I grew up on. Every now and then I'll get a good referral from a friend, that's how I found Naruto BTW.

When I do a google search on a show, or shows I found entertaining on Netflix, I'm bombarded with result strings like "manga kidz" and "anime kids club." In fact, that was the catalyst for me finding this thread.

I just want to say, the fact that shows are being marketed to kids only helps the notion that anime is "Kid's stuff." It's a shame, because more likely than not, the dialogue of some of these shows would be lost on a pre-teen.

To reply to a post, I'm old enough to realize what is real and fake...the lines of reality and fantasy just don't blur for me. But I will say that some new shows capture my imagination, making the show fun to watch.

Honestly, I find these shows just as entertaining as what you get on TV today, and if you look, you can run into shows that have the same level of maturity.

So to the critics out there, I say, who are you judge me for what I choose to do with my free time? For me, collecting and watching anime has been my hobby since I was a teen...you really have no right to say I'm childish or low brow because of it. I don't know...I just find it insulting. rolleyes.gif

#214 gdpetti

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE (ippikineko @ Mar 27 2009, 06:06 AM)
I know this point has been brought up before, but I think the idea that most "adults" have about anime just being "cartoons" and for children is one of the big aspects, at least for those who aren't anime retirees.

While anime and cartoons may seem like interchangeable terms, I'd like to mention that maybe the term "animation" is more suited to anime, as "cartoon" tends to imply that it is a genre, instead of a medium through which stories can be portrayed.

Most "uninitiated" adults who I've run into, including my parents, tend to view "anime" as one specific thing. That is the type of mindset that leads to the belief that all anime is either Pokemon...or Porn. Even some of the "initiated" adults I know, sometimes have mostly lost interest in anime because its all "the same anymore", without realizing that maybe they just need to look for a different genre of show.

The thing is, anime is a medium through which genres are told and sold. Shows within the genres try and sell themselves similarly to other shows in that genre, mainly because it's worked before. For example, Action movie fans don't usually complain about action movies being similar, even though they usually are. People who aren't fans of that type of movie would probably be fine just watching a couple of them at most. The same goes for most genres. I think if more people thought of anime as a more general term, then there would be less adults who "grow out of it" or consider it to be an immature past-time. It may also be one of the reasons that "uninitiated" adults seem to tend to be quite accepting of Studio Ghibli movies like Howl's Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke while turning up their nose at most anime TV series.


That should answer the question that started this thread. History et al aside, we here in the States see anime as cartoons, which are mostly a kid's thing we outgrew. Animation in the States, is mostly only known as Disney product, the best having some nice songs. All the 'anime' known in Japan isn't really known here in the States by the overwhelming majority of us dumbed-down 'Americans'. It hasn't been a part of our 'conditioning' or upbringing, so we see it as the genre 'cartoon'. Ippikineko has it right. Here in the States, most of the 'anime' would have been made in live action, as that is what the market/industry has setup. The 'anime' option, if there at all, is a small indie label at best. This is a story like soccer or futbol as the rest of the world knows it, which has really expanded in the elementary to high school arenas, but not just yet to the mass paying audience that grew up on football, baseball and basketball. Anime would need time to create this 'shelf-space' in the marketplace, which is why Ghibli uses Disney to market their product here. This is a common way of getting your foreign product on the shelf and works both ways, of course, the dominant culture always holds the upper hand, for better or for worse.

Imagine if 'Casablanca' was animated. No one here would pay attention to it. Or how about the recent 'HungerGames'? Same story, like subtitles or even dubs, we just don't 'do' animation much, except as children's fare like Cars or Toy Story, even if the same story lines are present like in 'Hungergames', which has been done in many animes already. A poster on the last page referenced this issue of live action vs animated or 3d vs 2d characterizations on screen, which is culturally conditioned as well... Bias in short, based in history and supported by each society. As Hammerstein put it in song in 'South Pacific', "you have to be carefully taught", and we haven't been taught to consider others opinions unless they agree with our own, and defeat in battle no doubt plays a large part in this as another poster has mentioned, but then that is just part of the cycle of life, the wheel of history as it repeats and repeats here in Purgatory.

Ippikineko put it right, animation vs cartoons, more than just a difference in style, but in form vs genre. Here in the States, most 'adults' grew up thinking they are the same, despite recent examples like Family Guy, South Park etc. We aren't used to the 2d viewing of our storytelling, and it is just storytelling. A good story is a good story no matter the form used in telling it. Just as most tv and film here in the States is mental mush, so it probably is around the world where most people are 'sheep' in need of a shepherd, and they can't tell the difference between a 'good' one from a 'bad'. So, most stories are mush to feed the sheep, be it anime, cartoons, 2d or any 3d form used in the telling. What is lost is the context, as the content remains mostly the same, just turn on the radio and listen to the same 'boy/girl' songs over and over, one generation after the next. Not much really changes in any 'art', just the means of delivering the product to the marketplace. This is why the overwhelming mass of 'art', 'business', 'religion', 'politics' etc remains 'mechanical', you can determine it from what stage of development the society is in, as they follow the general growth of the human it mirrors. A civilization is born, grows up, reproduces, parents its children and then grows old and dies. Very, very, very few ever 'awaken' and break free from this wheel of life.

'Adults' in the West, just didn't grow up considering anime as a 'normal' storytelling format. Forms of delivering the product changes with society, like opera that became musical theatre as the focus shifted from the group to the individual here in the West, so did the music turn from orchestras to vocalists. All kinds of issues can be brought into the discussion, but Ippikineko put it best IMO. Not too many people 'exploring' the unknown (to them) out there be it in the arts, history, religion, media etc. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. First the horse has to show thirst, only then will it look for water and perhaps some assistance to a source. Someone showing an interest in anything 'new' are probably 'thirty' and bored with the mental mush usually found... sounds like Neo in 'Matrix' don't you think?
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#215 Kid-Wolf

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:15 AM

But the problem here is that many adults tend to think that anything animated is too "kiddie" if you will. The problem is that there are highly ecchi biased anime out there along with some grapic ones as well.

Although with the latest certain Amercain Cartoons this view is changed a little bit now, but not overly as much. Pretty much we're more along the like of toilett humor when it comes to our animation for the older crowd, but for Japan it's more along the line of ecchiness and/or highly violent type series.

Granted there's nothing wrong with either view though, but I have to say that personally it seems that anime now-a-days are trying to aim for the older crowd for two reasons. One they know what they line and don't like, and two they have money to pay for some things as well. tongue.gif

So in other words it would seem as of late the anime industry might be going with the "If if works still" train of thought with most of thier anime though. sleep.gif

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#216 gdpetti

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (Kid-Wolf @ Jun 23 2012, 09:15 PM)
But the problem here is that many adults tend to think that anything animated is too "kiddie" if you will.

Try having them watch "Grave of the Fireflies" and see if their opinion changes.

#217 stabwound

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

Hey everyone,

I too have been watching anime for over 10 years now and it never gets old for me. To be honest like many of you said, even when i'll be retired i will keep watching them.

I know i missed a lot, since i just got back on fansub after quite some time, but during these years i tried to keep up with the anime scene.

I think that the majority of adults disagree with the anime because they get dragged in what society expects them to be and they forget to use their imagination. Where i live, and sadly in many places, if someone sees that it's not filmed and it's drawn, they instantly think that it's a childish cartoon and they discard it right there on the spot. I tried introducing some shows to people, as an experiment, and almost everyone took the conclusion after a few minutes that it is something for children.

To be honest, anime gives you that slice of imagination and freedom that you need through the daily life because many forget to think deeper or to give themselves a break from time to time. Besides this, excluding some tv-shows, i haven't watched TV in a long time because everything is bullcrap and anime is just the right breath i need after an exhausting day.

I pitty them in a way, because they don't know what they are losing, but good for us because we are more open minded right? biggrin.gif

Cheers!
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#218 malfion

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:58 PM

It really is just people thinking anime is cartoons and for kids. By association, many of these people also watch Keeping up with the Kardashians and read Gossip magazines.

You also have an audience that's getting into the whole "nerdom" (I hate that word) with Game of Thrones and the superhero movies but they only stay at a surface level. They declare themselves fans of the series even though they have read the books the show is based on or the comics the movies adapt/ are influenced by.

Both of them are the same to me. Tons of anime in the past few years alone is so much better than many adult audience drama shows which are full of filler for like 45 minutes and 15 minutes of story progression.
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